Speaker 1: 0:40

Welcome to the Husband Material podcast, where we help Christian men outgrow porn. Why? So you can change your brain, heal your heart and save your relationship. My name is Drew Boa and I'm here to show you how let's go. Today, we're talking about sexual fantasies and specifically the fantasies and genres that you find not just arousing but irresistible. Why are we talking about this? Ultimately, so that porn can lose its power over you, so that you can experience lasting freedom, and that is so much of my story. Being able to face my specific sexual fantasies and my fetish for braces and be able to talk about it and actually heal what's underneath it has given me more freedom than I thought was possible. So there's so much freedom and healing on the other side of processing your sexual fantasies and, at the same time, there is risk involved. You might have concerns about doing this work. If you're married, your wife might have concerns about doing this work. If you're married, your wife might have concerns about doing this work, and for good reason. So in this episode, you will learn three reasons why sexual fantasy work can feel threatening and how to maintain wisdom and safety so that you can process your sexual fantasies, strip porn of its seductive power and find lasting freedom. And if you would like my help in doing this, please come to our upcoming sexual fantasy workshop. On Saturday, july 12th. We are hosting HMA in a Day. Hma in a Day is an amazing free opportunity to spend an entire day with me and the rest of the Husband Material team. You'll go through the entire HMA course with a specific focus on understanding sexual fantasies. You will witness four live demonstrations of men processing their sexual fantasies with professional support, and you will have a chance to join HMA Husband Material Academy, which only opens up twice a year. I really believe Husband Material Academy is such a unique space for Christian men to be able to talk about our sexual fantasies, process them in a safe environment, and you can be a part of it for free at HMA in a Day on Saturday, july 12th. Register now at husbandmaterialcom slash workshop.

Speaker 1: 3:05

All right, let's get into it. Based on my work with hundreds of men over the years, here are the top three reasons I hear about why sexual fantasy work can be threatening. Number one it could lead to a relapse. Number two it seems contrary to scripture. And number three maybe your wife has concerns about it. Let's dive into each one.

Speaker 1: 3:27

First, processing your sexual fantasies can lead to a relapse. Yes, that's true. Also, not processing your sexual fantasies can also lead to a relapse and we need to take that risk very seriously. I do not recommend processing your sexual fantasies alone on a digital device at night. If you add all those three things together, it just sounds like a recipe for relapse. Also, this goes without saying, but if you are going to process it with another person, I would not recommend doing so with someone who you fantasize about. To me, that seems like common sense, but you might be surprised that some guys insist on only processing their sexual fantasies with someone who actually could be in their sexual fantasies. So if you feel triggered, unstable, unsafe or at risk of relapse, I would say don't process your sexual fantasies until you can find a safe environment with safe people and enough self-regulation to be able to go into this part of your story without allowing it to take control.

Speaker 1: 4:38

So many men never process their sexual fantasies because they're afraid of what will happen if they start entertaining those thoughts. So let me be very clear my goal in this work is not to focus on my sexual fantasies. I don't want to fixate on the details of my fetish and create even more arousal. Rather, my goal is to focus on the part of me that experiences this fantasy. It's about getting to know that part of me, finding out what's underneath that when does it come from, what's the story behind the sexual fantasy, and then explore that. This is not an exercise in entertaining fantasies. This is an exercise in exploring what's underneath the fantasies, and the specific type of sexual stimulation that turns you on is just the surface level. We want to get down under the surface level, to the soul level of what's happening within you. And when you can do that, it doesn't lead to a relapse. It leads to redemption and recovery and beauty and peace within you. Porn loses its power. It's a really beautiful thing. If you process your fantasies, you actually won't think about them as much because you've learned what they're trying to teach you and those specific types of porn will lose their power. It's amazing.

Speaker 1: 6:02

But even if you can do this work safely, some of you are thinking is this really biblical? It seems contrary to what I read in scripture. Some guys will say why do you want me to think about my sexual fantasies, and isn't that the opposite of what the Bible says? You might be thinking of verses like Philippians 4, 8. Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever not right or pure or noble or admirable, and I hear that this verse is not telling us to ignore the painful or unpleasant parts of our lives, it's not advising ignorance.

Speaker 1: 6:48

When Paul says, think about such things, he's not saying don't think about the brokenness in the world and the problems in your life. Rather, he's saying no matter what happens, keep coming back to what's good. Keep coming back to what's true and beautiful. Let that be the home. And then, from that home base, you can go out into the things that are not fun to think about when we process our sexual fantasies. It's like going out on a mission and then, when the mission's done, we come home. What is that mission? To grow in self-awareness, to bring the darkness into the light, to understand myself better, to be able to process childhood experiences and resume my sexual development where it got stunted.

Speaker 1: 7:35

And as we go out into the dangerous wild terrain of seeking to understand our sexual fantasies and process them, we need to come home in the end to love and joy and peace and come back to exactly what Paul is saying. Come back to what's true and what's right, and oftentimes we might find more truth and more goodness hidden inside our sexual fantasies than we thought would be there. In fact, it's this foundation that we have in the truth of the gospel that allows us to explore what's underneath our sexual fantasies without fear. Because I know that's not who I am. I'm God's beloved son In me. He's well-ple pleased I don't have to worry about that. So that frees me up to be able to be honest and to be be really vulnerable, so I can experience healing. Paul is not saying never think about the darkness. Paul is saying bring the darkness into the light. And wherever you go on your healing journey, always come home to love and truth and the goodness of God. We don't spend time thinking about what's right and good and true in order to escape from the world or ignore the world, but in order to face the world and to face the things that are difficult and tough. So, if anything, philippians 4.8 should be empowering us to be able to enter the uncomfortable space to face our fantasies and process them, because we have that foundation in God's Word. Process them because we have that foundation in God's word. You might even think of Philippians 4.8 as a grounding technique that can help you stay safe and keep your mind free and focused in order to do this work.

Speaker 1: 9:28

Another verse that I hear a lot from guys in our community who have hesitations about processing their sexual fantasies is 2 Corinthians 10 5. We take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ. And these guys are wondering how is processing my sexual fantasies, taking every thought captive, making it obedient to Christ? I think this verse often gets misinterpreted. It can sound like wanting to always be on guard for every single thought that might be wrong or sinful and just being really tense all the time. But this verse is not advising hypervigilance. It's advising intentionality. It's saying take charge of your mind, don't just let it do whatever it wants. And in the context of processing sexual fantasies, we might think about it this way Rather than drifting into thoughts of sexual fantasy, which sounds like a setup for sexually acting out, we need to be focused. We need to be on a mission of transforming our minds, and processing our sexual fantasies can be part of doing that. However you interpret the idea of taking every thought captive, I think in order to take every thought captive, we have to know what our thoughts are, and it helps to actually understand our thoughts are, and it helps to actually understand our thoughts. And when it comes to our sexual fantasies, sometimes we are so in denial or we have so much fear and shame that we don't fully allow ourselves to even admit what our sexual fantasies are. So maybe, in order to take every thought captive, we need to talk about our sexual fantasies and we need to understand them and process them so that we can follow Jesus better.

Speaker 1: 11:24

You know, in my very early days of beginning this process of pursuing freedom from porn I was in high school, before I ever got into a group or read books about this topic I remember writing out my strongest, most powerful sexual fantasy in detail. I had it on three pages of lined notebook paper and it felt like I was holding a very powerful drug in my hands, like what I've written here is so, so arousing that it could destroy me. I remember holding those pieces of paper in my hand and thinking to myself this is a defining moment. What am I going to do with this? I felt like I was Frodo in Lord of the Rings, standing on the edge of Mount Doom trying to decide if I was going to throw the ring of power into the fire, and in that moment it hurt so much. But I took those pieces of paper, I tore them to shreds and I threw the paper in the recycling bin. Them to shreds and I threw the paper in the recycling bin. And that was a huge turning point for me. I never would have had that experience. If I hadn't written out those fantasies, if I hadn't faced my true feelings, I wouldn't have been able to take those thoughts, captive in obedience to Christ.

Speaker 1: 12:59

I think in order to be able to fully surrender our sexual fantasies, we have to know what they are. We have to understand them so that we can have more of ourselves available to interact with Jesus and follow him. So, in summary, processing your sexual fantasies is not necessarily contrary to scripture. It's not necessarily going to lead to a relapse, but even then, you may feel inhibited from doing this work. If you're married and your wife has concerns about it, maybe she's afraid of what might happen if you try to process your sexual fantasies. And if that is the case, I strongly urge you to please, please, listen to your wife, because there's something that matters even more than being able to process your sexual fantasies, and that is safety Safety for her, safety for you, safety for your marriage, and that is a huge priority for us at Husband Material.

Speaker 1: 13:55

A few years ago, our team at Husband Material realized the need to create more safety for the men who participate as well as for their wives, and I need to credit Stephen Thomas for many of the insights I'm about to share, because I first learned them from him and he initiated a lot of this. We created a document called A Recommended Conversation to have with your Wife Prior to Attending the Husband Material from him, and he initiated a lot of this. We created a document called a recommended conversation to have with your wife prior to attending the husband material retreat. But I think it equally applies to men who want to process their sexual fantasies, and perhaps even men who are registered to attend HMA in a day where we will be processing our sexual fantasies all day in that workshop At husband material, we believe a man's individual recovery process does not need to be at odds with his wife's individual recovery process or the rebuilding of their marriage as a couple.

Speaker 1: 14:46

Husbands, if you need to set limits and boundaries on how much you process your sexual fantasies, or where and how that happens, you may feel discouraged or tell yourself the story that you are missing out. We encourage you to look at this experience as a powerful opportunity to build trust with your partner and trust that God will provide you with the healing experiences you need at this stage of recovery. Here are some recommended questions to ask your wife what concerns or fears do you have about me processing my sexual fantasies or attending the upcoming workshop HMA in a day? What boundaries do I need to maintain to help you feel safe? Are there any activities that you are uncomfortable with me participating in?

Speaker 1: 15:29

Sometimes men technically receive consent from their wives to participate, but it happens in the following order First the wife expresses discomfort, then the husband expresses that he feels like he'll miss out on healing by not participating, and then the wife concedes because she doesn't want to be controlling or potentially prevent his healing. We believe this is not true consent. It's harmful to put your wife in a position where she feels like her recovery is holding you back in some way. Individual recovery and marriage recovery should never be separated. What's best for her is also what's best for you. Husbands must learn to attune to our wives so that we can hear the no that is sometimes hiding behind the yes, having a posture of curiosity and compassion, rather than control, can help with this. Remember that any activity you freely choose to forego for the sake of your wife is an opportunity to build trust with her and heal your relationship, even if that means you forego some opportunities to process your sexual fantasies in ways that don't feel safe enough. And again, much of that language comes from Stephen Thomas, from Stephen Thomas Life Consulting, and I'm including a link to his website in the show notes.

Speaker 1: 16:38

So how do you process your sexual fantasy safely? First, you need a safe environment. I recommend doing it in the daytime, with your clothes on and don't be alone. Do it in a place with enough privacy that you're not going to be bothered, and yet in a place where you're not going to be at risk of relapse. Don't do it in a place where you've historically sexually acted out, like a bedroom or a bathroom. Find a space that feels supportive and do this work with safe people.

Speaker 1: 17:10

In Husband Material Academy, we give new students the opportunity to join triads. A triad is a group of three to five students who support each other on this journey, and we find that a group of three is safer than a group of two when you are processing these things. One-on-one with somebody, especially someone who's not a professional leader. On one with somebody, especially someone who's not a professional leader, there is a higher risk of one or both of you being triggered than if you're in a group of three. And if you're married, being part of a group of three men rather than just one-on-one can also create more safety for your wife. One-on-one sessions with a professional counselor, coach or therapist who has been trained in this area of understanding sexual fantasies can be so powerful, so healing, and that's often the setting where I see the most breakthroughs happen. In Husband Material Academy, we offer that kind of one-on-one coaching in our hot seat coaching calls so that all students who attend can benefit from witnessing someone's process, because when one man heals, we all heal.

Speaker 1: 18:13

So you can process your sexual fantasies safely if you have a safe environment, if you have safe people and you also want some strategies for self-regulation Breathing, mindfulness, physical exercise, taking breaks can all support you to be able to do this work without giving in into sexual temptation. If you're going to process your sexual fantasies and manage the very real risk of relapse, you need to have a safety plan of what to do if you feel triggered or if you feel sexually tempted. So have some tools in your toolbox that you can use, for example, the ones we teach in Husband Material Academy, the FLOSS method, boa. Decide what to do ahead of time, when your prefrontal cortex is fully functional, rather than in the moment when you're triggered. And finally, if you're married, please give your wife a voice and a choice when it comes to if, when and how you process your sexual fantasies. Remember, this is an opportunity to build trust with her, even if it means putting this on hold until you find the right safe space to do it.

Speaker 1: 19:21

This work is not easy. It's so vulnerable and it's worth it, especially if you're receiving professional support. A well-trained coach or counselor is going to be able to check in with you and discern if this processing is going in a healthy direction. Remember, there's a difference between focusing on the fantasy itself versus focusing on the part of you that has this fantasy. There's a difference between having curiosity about the fantasy and intrigue and excitement about it versus curiosity about what's underneath this fantasy. Where is it coming from? What's it about? What are the desires underneath your sexual arousal?

Speaker 1: 20:05

We are going to guide you into this with as much safety as possible at this upcoming workshop, hma, in a Day You're going to get live demonstrations of men working through their sexual fantasies in a way that's going to be so powerful to witness. And ultimately we do this work of processing our sexual fantasies every week in Husband Material Academy, including on Fantasy Friday, the weekly coaching call that I lead. If you're interested in this, please go to husbandmaterialcom slash workshop to join the upcoming sexual fantasy workshop and join HMA at joinhmacom. Check out the links in the show notes if you're interested in more examples of what it looks like to process sexual fantasies. And always remember you are God's beloved son and you, he is well pleased.