Introduction to Unwanted Sexual Attraction

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Welcome to the Husband Material podcast , where we help Christian men outgrow porn . Why ? So you can change your brain , heal your heart and save your relationship . My name is Drew Boa and I'm here to show you how let's go . Today we are talking about unwanted sexual attraction . By unwanted sexual attraction , what do I mean ? I mean being sexually attracted to someone or something that you would rather not be attracted to because acting on that attraction would go against your values .

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Many men in our community find themselves sexually attracted to other men . Others find themselves sexually attracted to children , teenagers , certain types of women , certain genres of porn or objects or items of clothing . In my life , unwanted sexual attraction has always focused on braces and orthodontic appliances . I don't want to want these things . They are unwanted because , even though I find braces very arousing , that arousal is connected to deeper desires that often go against acting on that arousal . So many of us find ourselves with arousal that is in conflict with our deeper desires and our true values . And for men outgrowing porn , it is absolutely essential to understand unwanted sexual attraction .

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Now , everyone experiences unwanted sexual attraction at some level . For example , if you're married , even if you find your wife very attractive , you might find yourself attracted to her sister or to one of your co -workers and life would be so much easier if you weren't attracted to them . But the fact is that you are , and in many cases unwanted sexual attraction is often no big deal . You think to yourself oh , that person is really beautiful , wow , what a great body . I really enjoy this part of this person's body or this part of this person's personality , and then you're able to move on . But for men outgrowing porn , unwanted sexual attraction is not casual or flippant flippant . It's an extremely serious matter because if I act on my unwanted sexual attraction , whether in porn or in person , I could lose my marriage , I could lose my family , I could lose my job , my ministry , my whole life as I know . It may depend on what I choose to do with unwanted sexual attraction , whether that attraction might be toward men , girls , women , objects , fantasies , fetishes , types of pornography .

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We all experience unwanted sexual attraction and tonight I am going to answer this question . How do I understand unwanted sexual attraction from a Christian perspective ? If I experience unwanted sexual attraction , perhaps even exclusively , what do I truly need ? How should I live my life ? What are my options ? If you're wondering why , I think I'm qualified to talk about this man .

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I have been wrestling with this topic for 15 years . I know what it's like to have a love-hate relationship . With my sexuality and my fetish for braces . I've helped hundreds of men process their unwanted sexual attractions . I've read dozens of books on this topic and I feel frustrated that what I am believing is not represented in the literature . Yet I find myself hearing about perspectives on LGBTQ issues and never quite feeling like they fully fit with what I think . So tonight I'm going to with what I think . So tonight I'm going to share what I think , not just about same-sex sexual attraction , but really any unwanted sexual attraction .

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I do realize this is a very delicate , polarized , politicized conversation when it comes to LGBTQ issues , questions of sexual identity and orientation , and I feel so anxious about addressing this topic that I could throw up right now . But I feel compelled to speak out because there's so much noise out there between side A , side B , side X , side Y . It can be so confusing . In this episode I'm going to cut through the noise . First , I will summarize the existing perspectives within Christianity on unwanted sexual attraction . These perspectives are primarily focused on dealing with being sexually attracted to members of the same sex , but I think we need to have a wider conversation that applies to everyone , and I'll say more about why . In the end , you will hear a new perspective that I have been developing in conversation with other husband material leaders like Henry Brown and Doug Carpenter , that you might call Side D . I'm calling it the sexual development model , a model that applies not only to LGBTQ issues but to any type of unwanted sexual attraction .

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This episode is going to be long . It's probably going to be controversial . I'm treating it as an experiment . This is a first draft . I realize I could be wrong about some things here and I hope my perspective will continue to be refined as time goes on .

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To thank Jason Thompson of Portland Fellowship for his work and his chart , which is called Four Views on Christian Doctrine , identity and Homosexuality . I had a wonderful conversation with Jason where we talked about his chart and I asked more questions . If you would like to see Jason's chart , go down to the link in the show notes and you will find it , as well as another document which I found to be very helpful called the Five Streams Differing Responses to LGBTQ by Dr Linda Seiler . I so appreciate Jason's work and Linda's work and the movement of Christians who are trying to think about these things faithfully and carefully , with an openness to the amazing influence that God can have on our sexuality and that healing and discipleship can have , wanting to think through ethical issues , psychological issues , spiritual issues . Sexuality is connected to everything and this work is so difficult , it's not easy . So thank you to Jason and Linda for creating some resources that have helped me create a new resource , a sexual development model . Well , gentlemen , I have created my own chart , which you can download at husbandmaterialcom slash SDM , which stands for the sexual development model .

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Before I present this new perspective , the sexual development model , you are going to hear the sexual development model . You are going to hear about some of the other sides and streams represented in Jason's chart and Linda's chart . Some of you are probably very familiar with this conversation in these charts already , and for some of you , I'm guessing that this conversation is new . So I'm going to catch you up on what people have been saying . While talking about different Christian views on same-sex sexual attraction , sssa You're going to hear about side A , side B , side Y , side X and then , if you want me to be on a side , I'm going to choose side D . While reading through these different sides . I saw value in each one and also limitations in each one . The sexual development model acknowledges the strength of each side and that each side has something that we can learn from , and also the limitations of each side and how each side has something missing , and I think this model creates space for all of that . At least , that's my hope .

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We're going to start with a brief overview of each side . Side A might be summarized as affirming , affirming and celebrating same-sex union . Side B might be summarized as be celibate , viewing same-sex union and sexual activity as against

Why This Topic Matters

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the moral code of Christianity and primarily focused on obeying that moral code , and I'll get more into detail about it later . And I'll get more into detail about it later . Side X refers to what many have called the ex-gay movement , and I'm going to specify two streams within that movement which are very different from one another . And side Y might be summarized as a new identity , wanting to emphasize identity in Christ over identity in sexual attraction . Side D refers to development , growth , discipleship , becoming mature , and before I can truly explain what that is and why it's different , we need to do a deep dive into each of the existing sides If you want to learn more about what each side generally teaches . I would recommend checking out Jason's chart , linda's chart . Here's the purpose of my chart . I just want to summarize each one and then highlight the strengths , the limitations and a key takeaway that we can learn from each one .

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Let's start with side A . The core teaching of side A , or the stream of affirming same-sex sexual activity , is to celebrate your sexuality , to see it as a good thing , to bless it , to go for it or , as Jason Thompson would say , to revel in it . And the relationship goal of people on this side generally is a same-sex union , whether that's monogamous or not . The goal is to release your sexuality and do what your unwanted sexual attraction wants you to do . You might not even call it unwanted sexual attraction in this side unwanted sexual attraction in this side . Some of you are probably not going to be very happy that I can find strengths in this side , but here's what I see as the strengths .

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Side A promotes openness and honesty and letting go of toxic shame . The idea of coming out of the closet , of being real , vulnerable and authentic about your sexual thoughts and feelings is good . It's good to be honest , it's good to be open and you know , side A is actually doing a pretty good job of trying to teach kids about sexuality from a young age . I disagree with a lot of what they're teaching , but we have something to learn from their approach to wanting to get sex education into mainstream places like schools and homes from a young age . We need sexuality education from a young age . We need to be able to talk about it , and side A is talking about it publicly , openly and here's the most important thing In many cases without shame .

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It's just normal to talk about sexuality . It's just normal to talk about being sexually attracted to different types of people or different types of things . There's less fear around it . There's less shame around it . We need that . So I see so much value , value in friends I know who affirm and bless same-sex unions , in being real , in letting go of shame , because shame is one of the major reasons why so many men continue coming back to porn again and again . So wouldn't it be wonderful if we carried less shame ? Here are the limitations , though . With that lack of shame and all that openness and honesty , I have ethical issues with Side A .

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From a traditional , historic Christian perspective , I think it's overly permissive and I'm not just talking about same-sex unions here . I think unwanted sexual attraction in general needs boundaries , and I don't see enough boundaries in this stream , in this side . Not as much definition of what's okay and what's not okay , not just for men with men or women with women , but conversations are increasingly going towards polyamory and adults and children having sexual activity together , and I think that the permissiveness of saying hey , celebrate your sexuality , don't be ashamed of it , can go off track when it doesn't have enough boundaries about what's truly healthy , good and beautiful according to scripture , according to historic Christian teaching . Oftentimes people on side A mislabel or malign other views as conversion therapy . It's often seen that any view other than side A is not accepting enough , not affirming enough , and so I think there's some major limitations there .

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Here's the key takeaway I want all of us to learn from side A your sexual thoughts , thoughts , feelings and attractions are not bad . Notice how I didn't say your sexual behaviors are not bad . I said your sexual thoughts , feelings and attractions are not bad . Let me say it another way they're not sinful . We know that Jesus was tempted in every way , yet without sin . There is a difference between noticing beauty and choosing lust . Lust is a posture of taking and consuming another person . Love is a posture of sharing , receiving and giving with another person . Love is a posture of sharing , receiving and giving with another person , and it can be loving to look at another person , notice attraction and beauty and then say a blessing over them , pray for them , move on .

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There is nothing wrong with feeling attracted to someone , no matter who that person is . There is nothing wrong with having a sexual urge to do something that goes against your values . That's a feeling in your body , to use the language of IFS and internal family systems .

Understanding Existing Christian Perspectives

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Unwanted sexual attraction is a part of you . It's a feeling . Emotions are feelings and as a society , we generally believe that emotions are not bad . In the same way , I think we need to all get on the same page , that sexual feelings are not bad . They're like emotions . What matters is what you do with them . Feelings are not bad . They're like emotions . What matters is what you do with them .

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And from a Christian IFS perspective , we can bless and appreciate unwanted sexual attraction without indulging it . We can welcome those thoughts that we would rather not have . We don't have to attack them or avoid them . We can relate to them with curiosity and compassion , as I teach at Husband Material . It doesn't mean we need to let them take control of our behavior . This is huge for so many men . So many men are surprised and amazed that , yes , it is possible to appreciate and bless and welcome whatever sexual attractions you have without doing what those attractions are moving you to do . Just like if you have children , you love your kids , you delight in your kids , even when they want to do things that go against your values , even when they hurt each other or they want to do something that you know would be bad for them and for others . They're kids . A developmental approach in that instance is to say of course my kid wants to hit his sibling . Of course my kid wants to eat all the candy in the candy jar . Of course my kid wants to sexually experiment . He's a kid . We need to have that same posture with ourselves and say whatever I'm feeling , thinking , wanting , craving sexually , it's not bad and there is a way to celebrate your sexuality without giving yourself over to whatever it wants you to do . Okay , we did one side , let's keep going .

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Side B , what Linda Seiler calls the stream of accommodation , has the core teaching of obey God , and for most people on side B , they interpret that to mean be celibate , remain single for your whole life , don't get into same-sex sexual activity . Same-sex sexual activity . Within side B , there is increasing awareness of what's called mixed orientation marriage , and this stream is often viewing same-sex sexual attraction actually in a very similar way that side A views it . Both side A and side B have an assumption that same-sex sexual attraction is inborn , ingrained . In other words , I was born this way and side A would say celebrate that , indulge that , go , act on that . Side B would say don't .

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A man commented on one of my YouTube videos recently and said if you don't embrace what we're calling sidesy Day , then you are essentially putting yourself in a dark room alone for the rest of your life . And that is exactly how many of you guys feel about this thought of not having same-sex sexual relationships or not having gay porn or not having your unwanted sexual attractions fulfilled . It can feel like death , like death . It can feel like resigning myself to be alone , to living the rest of my life in a dark room , alone , in a corner , in despair , and that is where I actually see offering some strengths that we need to appreciate .

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Side B and some of the proponents of it have been creating plausibility structures within which lifelong singleness can actually make sense and be a viable , healthy way of life Houses where people live together and do life together . Communities where people see each other on a much more regular basis than we usually get in church with a once a week Sunday morning service . Get in church with a once a week Sunday morning service . Side B has acknowledged that singleness is a valid state of life and also our society is not set up for single people to thrive . So if we want to give people a viable path to a healthy , connected life path to a healthy , connected life we need to have more community . We need to have stronger friendships . We need to have more everyday intimacy and I love how a lot of side B people are emphasizing that Not all of them are , but I think we all need that . But I think we all need that With whatever your sexual context is .

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If you're single , if you're divorced , if you're not married , being a sexual person can just be discouraging . You can feel like I have no outlet . You can feel like I have no place to put all this sexual energy . Sexuality is our engine for intimacy . It's not ultimately about sex . It's about connection and belonging and attachment , and Side B has acknowledged that if we're going to tell people to obey God and be celibate , we need to give them a way to do that . That's better than just living the rest of your life in a dark room alone . We need community , we need friendship , we need the church . Essentially , here are some limitations that I see in side B .

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Many side B Christians might drift towards side A might drift towards side A . For example , if two men decide to form a covenant friendship with each other . They live together , they eat together , they might have almost everything that a married couple would have , except for sexual activity and a ring on their fingers . To me , this seems like the closest thing to side A without actually crossing the line . So it's not surprising to me when men who find themselves on side B often renounce it and give up and go to side A . Maybe they're tired of sitting in a dark room alone , so to speak , or maybe they're trying to pursue non-sexual friendships and finding that it keeps getting difficult . It keeps drifting in the direction of a same-sex union , and many Side B Christians identify as gay or as LGBTQ .

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The Side B proponents often also don't see marriage as a valid option for those who experience same-sex sexual attraction , and there's something a little bit sad about that , Because I know so many men in the husband material community who have wonderful marriages . Their unwanted sexual attraction has not kept them from that . If we said that anybody who experiences unwanted sexual attraction shouldn't get married , then we would all be disqualified . What about me with my sexual fetish for braces ? This is one of the reasons why I don't fully resonate with these different sides and these different charts , because where do I fit in all this ? In my late teens and early 20s , at one point I genuinely thought that I would probably be single for the rest of my life . I had very little hope for marriage . I felt despair , and it was a wonderful healing journey for me to realize the key takeaway of Side B , which is this Healthy sexuality does not require you to be married or coupled . You can have connection , intimacy , belonging , secure attachment , deep friendships , people who know you and love you , separate from romance . Wow , that is a truth that we all need to hear . So there's side A and side B , which are primarily ethical perspectives , and initially those were the only sides that I heard people talking about .

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There has been more and more disagreement and differentiation in the last few years between side B and what might be called side Y , the stream of mortification . The core teaching of side Y is that if you experience unwanted sexual attraction , you need to repent and believe the gospel . Unwanted sexual attraction is seen as a sin issue . It's actually seen as sinful , and this is one of the places where I would disagree . Remember when I said Jesus was tempted in every way and yet without sin . Our feelings are not sinful . It's what we do with them and how we respond to our feelings or react to them that can

Side A: Celebrating Sexuality

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go against what's right and good Inside . Why , generally , the relationship goal is opposite sex union , in other words , traditional heterosexual marriage .

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Here's what I see as the main strength of side Y . Sexual attraction is a fickle , fragile foundation for your identity . For your identity . Both side A and side B find a sense of identity in being attracted to a specific type of person sexually . Side Y says that's not who you are . How you feel is not who you are . What you're sexually attracted to is not who you are . It's just a feeling . And that's good news . And I remind you of that good news every week on this podcast when I say always remember you are God's beloved son . In you , he is well-pleased . No matter what you've done , no matter what's been done to you , no matter who you're sexually attracted to , no matter what turns you on or turns you off , you need a foundation that's bigger than just your feelings , to build your life on the best foundation , for that is your identity in Christ . I love that .

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Here's where I cringe at Side Y . They often over-spiritualize sexual issues , not taking into account psychology , neuroscience , biology , our social context , childhood origin stories , trauma . This is seen as a sin issue , and if it's a sin issue , then they have the standard solution for sin , which is repent and believe the gospel . And while spiritual formation is a part of this journey , we start to go off track when we reduce it to that and it can often feel like pray the gay away . So side Y can fall into spiritual bypass and trying to put a spiritual solution on what is oftentimes an emotional wound .

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Sexual temptation is not sin , and when you experience unwanted sexual attraction , you can view yourself as a human who has feelings , and sometimes those feelings want you to do crazy things . I think Side Y often promotes purity , culture , fear and shame over sexual thoughts and feelings . Yet the beauty of this side can be captured in one sentence your sexuality is not who you are . It's a part of you . I'm coming back to the IFS perspective that we all have parts and unwanted sexual attraction is a part of you . Against side A , I would say your sexuality is a part of you . It's not who you are . Against side Y , I would say your sexuality is a part of you . You don't need to repent from it . Hope this is making sense .

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Side Y was ultimately a branching off of side X , which is much more nuanced than most people assume . Within side X I have two streams conversion and transformation . Conversion from what we might call the ex-gay era is what Side A would call conversion therapy . I actually think that it's really important for us to distinguish between these two streams within side X because they're very , very different . The conversion stream of side X teaches you to change your sexuality . If you experience unwanted sexual attraction , try to change it or remove it or replace it . The goal here is , if you're homosexual , to become heterosexual . The relationship goal is opposite sex union . I see some serious limitations with this stream . I have ethical issues with the conversion stream of side X because it is internally violent Trying to change your sexuality in the sense of removing or replacing unwanted sexual attraction is often based on self-hatred , shame , fear , control .

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This stream , I think , is responsible for much of the movement we have seen from people who tried the traditional , historic Christian sexual ethic and realized it wasn't making anything better . And realized it wasn't making anything better Because when you try to resist unwanted sexual attraction , you actually intensify it . What you resist persists . So if you continue to try to stop being attracted to certain people and to start being attracted to other people certain people and to start being attracted to other people , you are fighting a self-defeating battle . That is really , really discouraging , devastating , heartbreaking . Some of you have been on a quest to annihilate your unwanted sexual attraction for years . It's really sad to me From an IFS perspective . Your managers are waging war against your firefighters and the exiles are suffering because of that .

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Because of that , on the one hand , there is a strength and a goodness in wanting change , in the sense of personal growth , the sense of relational support to meet your life goals and , of course , being open to divine intervention , because anything is possible with God . And also , whatever type of growth or support or healing you pursue should be based on self-acceptance , self-compassion and kindness rather than self-contempt and self-condemnation and fighting a frustrating , exhausting battle that you can never win . Because , guess what ? Unwanted sexual attraction is a part of you and it's always going to be a part of you . It can be less intense , less frequent , it can be less disturbing . It can be less disturbing , it can be less controlling , and it's always going to be a part of you .

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We need to learn how to love and accept all parts of us , all of our thoughts and feelings . I think that is the posture of Jesus toward us . I think that is the posture of Jesus toward us Always kind , always loving , always gracious , always gentle , always tender . And we are so harsh with ourselves , we are so critical of ourselves . We beat ourselves up . We should all over ourselves . We beat ourselves up , we should all over ourselves . And that's what I see with so many men who come to me for help . They're in this stream and it is eating them alive .

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Yes , it's true that your sexuality can shift and evolve , but not based on obligation or forcing something to happen . Those shifts happen naturally , spontaneously , and sometimes not at all , but it's always part of a bigger story of development and maturity and growing up that I'm going to talk about a little later . I can sympathize with so many people who are suspicious of any side other than side A , because it sounds like the conversion stream and there is a much better , healthier , stronger , more mature and helpful stream within SideX that can be called the transformation stream . This is what I now see more ministries and clinicians and professionals teaching that ultimately , what we need to do is heal our sexual brokenness . The problem is we often view things as needing healing that actually don't need healing . Here's what I mean .

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This concept of healing can easily be misunderstood and confused with conversion therapy . If you think I need to heal from my unwanted sexual attraction , no , no , no , I'm not saying you need to heal from it . That's the conversion stream , trying to change your sexuality . I'm saying that your unwanted sexual attraction may be a clue to deeper healing , relationally , emotionally , maybe even psychologically , emotionally , maybe even psychologically . Unwanted sexual attraction can be a symptom of trauma , not always . Yet

Side B: Obedience and Celibacy

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underneath unwanted sexual attraction , we often find childhood origin stories of being neglected , abused , enmeshed , oftentimes abandoned by fathers , enmeshed with mothers , alienated from peers , and the transformation stream is open to exploring those stories , open to trauma therapy . And the goal of this therapy is not to heal from unwanted sexual attraction , or even to heal unwanted sexual attraction , but to heal whatever's underneath it . The goal is healing . The outcome might be a shift in what you experience sexually , and I have experienced many shifts in my unwanted sexual attraction that I've described in an episode called how my Sexual Fetish Shifted Over Time . So I see a lot of strength in this transformation stream , as long as we get clear that we are not healing our sexual thoughts and feelings , because those are not broken . Remember they're just like emotions .

Speaker 1 40:36

God created us to experience sexual arousal and he didn't give us some kind of exclusive thing where we can only be aroused by our wife . So many guys are thinking to themselves if I could only be aroused by just my wife . Well , no one is only aroused by just their wife . Everybody experiences unwanted sexual attraction to some degree . People in the transformation stream will sometimes say God's design is for man and woman to be married and to experience sexual arousal toward their opposite sex partner . The relationship goal here is opposite sex union . However , there are a couple of limitations with this . One is that I disagree that God's design is for us to experience sexual attraction only to the person that we're married to . God's design is that your body will be aroused through touch , through stimulation , through certain types of emotional energy , regardless of the source . It doesn't matter who's touching you , it's going to create arousal . This often creates an internal conflict between arousal and desire . God designed our bodies to experience sexual attraction period period . Our role is to become mature in how we handle that attraction , wanting to fuel it in the directions that align with our values and wanting to not fuel it in other directions . Role in order to fulfill a moral code of sexual union in a marriage between opposite sex partners only requires stewardship of that attraction .

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Within the transformation stream , I still see people often promoting marriage as the ideal outcome , seeing that as God's ultimate design , maybe not validating singleness as much as side B does . After all , singleness is going to be our eternal state , according to Jesus . According to Jesus , there will be no marriage in the resurrection other than marriage to God . We as the church , the bride being married to the lamb . Both singleness and marriage are meant to show the love of God to the world and to be a picture of marriage between Christ and the church . In this stream of transformation , we need to be very clear that healing is ultimately relational , that sexual brokenness needs to be defined , and singleness is just as valid as marriage .

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Here's what I see as the key takeaway of the transformation stream , and it gives me a lot of hope . Your sexual story makes sense and God wants to redeem it all . Your unwanted sexual attraction is not random . There's a story behind it , there's a logic to it , even if you don't understand what that is and even if we never understand what that is . It's not magical , it's manageable and it's not beyond the redemptive reach of Jesus to come into your life and use that unwanted sexual attraction to draw you closer to himself , to draw you closer to other people , to lead you into becoming the person he made you to be .

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Unwanted sexual attraction is not a barrier to being loved by God and to having a great life . It's a bridge , and the more I share my unwanted sexual attraction with other people , the more I find myself connected to them , the more I find myself undoing shame , facing fear , reversing the curse of loneliness and isolation . Reversing the curse of loneliness and isolation and unwanted sexual attraction can become a gift , in the sense that any human experience can become a gift . It doesn't have to be a curse , and Jesus is here to make all things new , and I believe that one day , when we are completely transformed in the new heavens and the new earth , that our sexual attraction and arousal , if it still exists , is going to be completely aligned with our deepest desires , when our transformation into becoming exactly like Jesus is complete , it will be impossible to sin . We won't have to manage our emotions , at least not the same way with effort that we do now . In IFS terms , our parts will be unburdened , our wounds will be healed and we get to experience a taste of that here and now , and the transformation stream is moving toward that , and I love that .

Speaker 1 45:59

So there you have it a summary of side A , side B , side Y , side X , what I see as the strengths and limitations of each one and what I'm calling the sexual development model . Maybe side D , for short , is not really a side . It's a lens through which we can view each of these sides as being part of a bigger picture . Each side , I think , has some value for sexual development . We need to celebrate our sexuality has some value for sexual development . We need to celebrate our sexuality . Shame doesn't belong on our sexuality . We need to learn how to be honest and let go of shame , like we see so many people doing in Side A . We need to learn how to validate singleness and create strong structures for community , like Side B is doing . We need to emphasize identity in Christ over identity in sexual attraction , like side Y is doing . We need to be open to growth and support and divide intervention and also curious and compassionate for the childhood origin stories behind our unwanted sexual attraction . Like we see in the transformation stream side X ministries . Like we see in the transformation stream Side X ministries .

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Here is the core teaching within which all of these strengths are contained Become a sexually mature adult . Side A and Side B both assume that same-sex sexual attraction is there from birth and you're born this way . Side A is saying we need to get back to that , you know , revert to the way you were born . Side B is saying , well , this is the way I was born , but I need to always go against it . Andrew is commenting that side Y just says that same-sex sexual attraction is from original sin , so also a born-this-way perspective . In a sense , side X assumes that I was born without same-sex sexual attraction , so I need to get back to that somehow . Back to that somehow . Side X would assume that same-sex sexual attraction happens in life experiences , sometimes through trauma , sometimes through neglect , abuse or sometimes through other ways , and there's still an impulse within Inside Ex to go back to this original state Inside D .

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When I say become a sexually mature adult , I am saying that everyone is designed to achieve a state that we were not born with and that state is maturity . And all of us are moving forward toward that state , not reverting back to being gay , not reverting back to being straight , moving forward into becoming mature , sexually , emotionally , spiritually . And our goal is not necessarily marriage and our goal is not necessarily marriage and it's not necessarily singleness . Our goal is freedom from problematic sexual behavior .

Side Y: Repentance and Identity

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So here's my point Rather than try to go back to God's original design that appears to be like from birth , whether that's opposite sex attraction or same-sex attraction , I actually think God's design is not something we have at birth . It's something we grow into , something we develop into .

Speaker 1 49:44

A while ago on the Husband Material podcast , I had Bill Herring on the show talking about his problematic sexual behavior framework . He asks five questions to assess problematic sexual behavior . One commitment Are you keeping your promises ? Two values Are you okay with what you're doing ? Three responsibility Are you protecting others ? Four negative consequences Is everything okay ? And five control Are you in control of yourself ? Control Are you in control of yourself ? I find these questions to be very helpful and our goal relationally whether you're single or married , I think should be freedom from behavior that falls into those five categories . Now your ethical perspective or your values might differ from mine . From a developmental perspective , I'm not concerned with helping you get to some final destination of where I think sexual perfection lies . My concern is for your growth , for you to go from where you are right now to the next step , to becoming a little bit more like Jesus every day . And if your version of that is something I disagree with , that's not going to stop me from connecting with you and being in relationship with you .

Speaker 1 51:05

In the sexual development model . I'm not trying to convince everyone that my side is the right side . Rather , I'm meeting people in the middle of whatever side they're on and wanting to help them grow a little bit more in character in Christ-likeness , even if their definition of that is different from mine . So my relationship goal for people is not necessarily a certain version of union or celibacy , it's freedom from behaviors that get in the way of what our sexuality was created for . Here's the strength of the sexual development model it creates space for the strengths of all sides , for the strengths of all sides , and the sexual development model applies to all unwanted sexual attraction , arousal and behavior . So this is not just about LGBTQ issues , this is for everyone and this is a major frustration that I've had with the existing paradigms For me , having a sexual fetish for braces .

Speaker 1 52:18

I never fully fit into any of the sides Because I'm not trying to get back to a state where I'm not obsessed with braces and I'm not trying to just go with the state of being obsessed with braces . My fetish for braces as something that I experienced from a young age that also took shape in my development , especially in middle school when all the kids around me had braces . This is really the core of how I came up with this model . I needed something to fit my sexuality that got stunted when I was 13 years old . That doesn't necessarily fully align with same-sex sexual attraction and at the same time , I wouldn't describe myself as straight . In fact , I don't think anyone's straight . I think we are all created with a sexuality that's good and beautiful and we all experience sexual brokenness . No one's straight the main limitation of the sexual development model right now . Is that not enough ?

Speaker 1 53:29

People are going into detail , articulating exactly what sexual development is Like . How does it work ? What are the stages of sexual development ? If we're saying this should be the umbrella over everything , well , don't we need to define it more ? The closest thing I found to a summary of stages of sexual development was a DVD from like the 80s by doctors Clifford and Joyce Penner , where they described stages of sexual development from birth through adulthood . This way In infancy there's a stage of healthy attachment , learning safe touch , learning vocab words and learning to talk openly about sex and sexuality is a developmental stage . As you get older , into school age , kids , curiosity is another stage of sexual development . Learning , blessing that my body is good and also boundaries that I need to respect the bodies of others . Experimentation and adventure is another healthy , normal stage of sexual development , especially in pre-adolescence and adolescence . And the stage at which the Penners say that you reach sexual maturity in adulthood is what they call mature management . Adulthood is what they call mature management . That is the state to which I believe we should all aspire to maturely manage our sexuality , not just to indulge it , not just to fight a battle against it . Being an adult means maturely managing it .

Speaker 1 55:18

More research is needed , more books need to be written , more models like this need to be created so that we can understand what is this goal that we're moving toward , not just trying to get back to . I've read so many books about sexuality . Many of them reference the idea of sexual development , but nobody fully defines it . Nobody fully spells it out the way . I think we really need it to be spelled out in order to make PsyD or the sexual development model more credible , something that we can really grab a hold of . Here's my key takeaway of the sexual development model that I hope all of you will remember .

Speaker 1 56:13

If you experience unwanted sexual attraction , here's what that says about you you are human . You're human . The fact that you experience this doesn't mean there's something wrong with you . It also doesn't mean you need to give into it . It means you have a body . It means you have a body . It means you have feelings . It means God created you to experience sexual attraction and sometimes , just like every other person , you would rather not experience it toward a specific person or type of porn or behavior . My friend , you are human and the truest thing about you is that you are God's beloved child and as his beloved child . You're in the process of maturing sexually , just like all of us are . We're in a process of maturing sexually . That includes learning to celebrate our sexual thoughts and feelings , learning to obey God , not necessarily needing to be married or coupled .

Speaker 1 57:31

Yes , we're all repenting and believing in the gospel . We need to be clear about what we're repenting of and hint , it's not our sexuality . We can pursue personal growth . We can get relational support . We can be open to divine intervention in the Holy Spirit's work in our lives . We can explore our childhood origin stories . We can receive trauma therapy as needed and we can believe the truth that God welcomes us and he's here for it . He's not ashamed of unwanted sexual attraction . He's not afraid of unwanted sexual attraction because we're human . My friend , unwanted sexual attraction is a part of you . It's not who you are and it doesn't get to dictate what you do one way or the other . You have the power to choose what to do with it . My hope is that you will take steps toward development , maturity and growth , because the goal is not to get back to some idealistic , perfectionist state . The goal is to grow up . It's discipleship , becoming like Jesus . I think that's what Christianity is about .

Speaker 1 58:54

At this point you might be wondering what is the sexual development model ? If I had to summarize it to somebody , what would it be ? Here are the core assumptions I have that I would describe

Side X: Conversion vs. Transformation

Speaker 1 59:05

as the core ideas of the sexual development model that make it different from any other perspective that's been articulated that I know of . I'm just going to read them straight through . These are the assumptions of the sexual development model . Sexual attraction is a normal and good part of you Period . No one is born sexually mature . Maturity develops over time . Sexual attraction naturally grows and develops throughout life , but sexual development can be stunted or hijacked in many ways by porn , trauma , abuse , abandonment , enmeshment and so on . Now we all experience unwanted sexual attraction at some level and our journey to maturity is holistic , involving knowledge , skills and attitudes , involving knowledge , skills and attitudes Our heads , our hearts , our bodies . It's a beautiful journey and it's never too late to take that journey and become a sexually healthy mature adult .

Speaker 1 1:00:14

The sexual development model has some core assumptions that make it different from this whole side A , side B , side Y , side X scheme . Here's one Sexual attraction is a normal and good part of you period . Side A would clearly agree with that Side . B , y and x need a little bit of help to get on board with this idea that sexuality is not just good in the context of marriage , and actually in the context of marriage it can be really harmful , objectifying and destructive . Marital rape is a real thing . If you think that sexual attraction in marriage is the good version of it , then you're still ultimately allowing for marital rape and consumption of another person's body just because they're married .

Speaker 1 1:01:13

What's missing in a marriage where the guy is attracted to his wife but he's using her and objectifying her ? What's missing is maturity . What's missing is being able to maturely manage his attraction so that sexuality is about connection , not just consumption . Sexual attraction is normal and good period , just like any other feeling , just like any other emotion . Sexual attraction , however , is not the goal . Opposite sex sexual attraction is not the goal . Same sex sexual attraction is not the goal . Maturity is the goal .

Speaker 1 1:01:50

No one is born sexually mature . You were not born this way . If you find yourself in a state of maturity where you're able to delay your sexual gratification , you can bless your sexuality . You're not shaming yourself . You're able to regulate your nervous system without sexually acting out . Those markers of maturity are not inborn . Maturity develops over time . It develops through relationships . It develops through learning , self-regulation , self-awareness , self-compassion . So that's the core assumption I mentioned earlier , that we're not trying to go back to some state we had at birth . We're trying to go forward into who we're created to be , who we're created to become .

Speaker 1 1:02:37

And here's a piece that I think a lot of people are missing Sexual attraction naturally grows and develops throughout life . When we were children , many of us experienced sexual attraction to other children and that was normal and good . There was nothing wrong with that . As we grow and develop , our bodies grow and evolve . I felt to my wife when we got married is going to be very different than the attraction I feel to her when we are in our 70s and 80s , if we're able to live that long . I say this to normalize that sexual attraction shifts , evolves , grows over time . It's actually a very common experience and we don't even realize it's happening .

Speaker 1 1:04:02

Side A and side B often treat unwanted sexual attraction as a kind of fixed entity that might or might not change . What I'm saying is sexual attraction is dynamic and the normal state of it is to grow and evolve as we get older , and what often happens is that it becomes stunted or hijacked and therefore becomes more fixated than it could be . And that's what happened to me when I was 13 years old . My natural , normal development being attracted to other girls was growing and changing and then it got stuck . It got stunted and hijacked by the trauma I experienced and a lot of other parts of my story that I could go into . Sexual development can be stunted or hijacked in many ways . It's not that it's one thing that can then just change . It's like no , it's changing , and then often it becomes just one thing , and that's where a lot of us come back to again and again in pornography . It's often one thing or one type of thing that we became fixated on , perhaps a stage of development where we got stuck .

Speaker 1 1:05:24

And , as we are formed sexually in many different ways , we all experience unwanted sexual attraction in one way or another , and we're all on a journey to maturity . That journey involves acquiring knowledge , skills and attitudes . It's not just about learning more information in your head . It's also about practicing skills like connecting with others , being able to release energy from your body without sexually acting out , being able to process your emotions , heal your trauma . There's a skill aspect and there's also an attitude of blessing your sexuality and also having boundaries around it . Remember that's one of the stages of development that Penner's talked about . It's an attitude of kindness , curiosity and compassion . Sexual maturity is not just about what you do or what you think . It's about how you love and thankfully , it's never too late to become a sexually healthy , mature adult .

Speaker 1 1:06:32

I think many of these assumptions challenge some of the existing paradigms . Some of the existing paradigms , because if you experience sexual attraction to the same sex , that doesn't put you in a separate category from the rest of humanity . It means you experience unwanted sexual attraction , just like everyone . If you find yourself fixated and fascinated with just one type of person or one type of experience sexually , that doesn't necessarily mean you were born that way . Perhaps it means your development was stunted or hijacked . If you're wondering will my sexuality ever change or grow , think about it . Not like transforming a dog into a cat . Think of it as a puppy becoming an adult dog .

Speaker 1 1:07:22

The sexual development model is unique . I have seen some other ministries and professionals who embody some of these principles , but they've never fully articulated it the way I've done today . This sexual development model is at the core of the outgrow porn approach that we are teaching in Husband Material Academy . It's going to be fully presented in my upcoming book this summer called Outgrow Porn , which I'm very excited about , this entire chart showing side A , b , x , y and the sexual development model and everything I've just shared . You can download that chart , you can share it with your friends . Go to husbandmaterialcom , slash , sdm , and that will help you visualize what we're talking about . And that will help you visualize what we're talking about . The outgrow porn approach is about becoming sexually mature , learning secure attachment , healthy , safe touch , learning to talk about these things without shame , blessing boundaries , experimentation and adventure in a redemptive sense of taking redemptive risks in a redemptive sense of taking redemptive risks and ultimately learning how to maturely manage our unwanted sexual attractions and behaviors .

Speaker 1 1:08:45

Thank you so much for sticking with me through this very long episode . I'm now going to open up some time for questions . Tom says how can you say that my sexual attractions are not bad and destructive to my marriage ? Well , it's pretty simple . It's what you do with those attractions that's destructive to your marriage . It's not the attractions themselves , it's what you do with it . A domestic violence survivor might say how can you say that my husband's anger is not bad and destructive to me . His anger is not bad . It's what he's doing with his anger that's bad .

Speaker 1 1:09:26

Tom says how do I learn to not hate my unwanted sexual attraction ? You take the outgrow porn approach . You respond to your attraction by welcoming it , getting curious about the story behind it , appreciating it and blessing it , and then managing it , regulating it . Relating to my unwanted sexual attraction like a loving parent would relate to their own child , isn't that beautiful . That's what we're learning how to do , and that is so much better than behavior modification , so much better than self-hatred , so much better than living the rest of your life in a dark room alone . And it's so much better than just going with whatever your arousal tells you to do , because it's often going to take you in a destructive direction , just like the thoughts and instincts of children take them in destructive directions . How can parents use this model to teach their kids healthy sexuality ?

Speaker 1 1:10:31

I think it starts with being willing to talk about it being open and honest willing to talk about it being open and honest and then it continues into blessing thoughts , feelings , emotions , including the sexual ones , and having boundaries about what's okay and what's not okay , welcoming curiosity , having an attitude where no question is off limits and instead of being overly concerned with surface level sexual behaviors , being more concerned with character development , who are you becoming sexually ? In purity culture , so many of us internalized a posture that was all about keeping the rules , but it was still very self-centered because I was thinking to myself how much can I get away with sexually without sinning ? It's not sexually mature . If we're concerned with maturity instead of purity , I'm going to be asking whatever the behavior is , whether we believe it's right or wrong , who am I becoming ? When we're concerned with development and maturity , behaviors are not the most important thing . Knowledge , skills and attitudes become more important . We focus on those . My hope with the sexual development model is a movement from focusing on sexual purity to focusing on sexual maturity , and if we do that , so many positive ripple effects are going to follow .

Speaker 1 1:12:10

Andrew's asking are there particular scriptures you would use to help explain your model ? Listen to Ephesians 5.1 . Explain your model . Listen to Ephesians 5.1 . Follow God's example , therefore , as dearly loved children

The Sexual Development Model

Speaker 1 1:12:25

, and walk in the way of love , just as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us as a fragrant offering and a sacrifice to God . So , first of all , there's the foundation that we are dearly loved and that we are learning how to walk in the way of love , how to become love , how to embody the love of Christ . And that's what our sexuality is for , that's what our whole lives are for . We are not born this way . Knowing how to love it's something that we develop over time . Galatians 5 would be another place . I would go to say that the fruit of the Spirit , in other words , the result of the Holy Spirit in our lives , is love , joy , peace , patience , kindness , goodness , faithfulness , gentleness and self-control and self-control . These are attitudes and they're also skills that we learn . We are becoming these things .

Speaker 1 1:13:26

My master's degree was in Christian spiritual formation and the focus of that program was all about how do we become more like Jesus , how do we live the Christian life and empower others to do the same ? And ultimately , it's not about attraction , it's not about behavior , it's about maturity , it's about character development being formed in the likeness of Christ , and that's a huge part of what's informing all this for me . I do think that a lot of what I shared came from a Christ-centered IFS perspective , and if you want to read more about where that comes from , check out the book Boundaries for your Soul by Alison Cook and Kim Miller . You might also check out Altogether you by Jenna Reimersma . Even from a Christian perspective , the idea that there are no bad parts of us makes a lot of sense , because God created everything and everything is good and everything has been affected by sin , sin done to us , the sin that we've done . And so , rather than viewing ourselves as having some good desires and some bad desires , or some good attractions and some bad attractions , we can view it all as good and broken and in need of redemption . Our sexuality is good , our sexuality is broken and it is being redeemed .

Speaker 1 1:15:09

Initially I wanted to present the sexual development model as a new side , side D , and while it might be called that in shorthand , ultimately I want to stop taking sides . I want men who experience unwanted sexual attraction to no longer view themselves as abnormal or separate or different fundamentally than everybody else , because everybody experiences unwanted sexual attraction . Just not everybody admits it , not everybody's willing to explore it or process it . I think we're on to something here Certainly haven't arrived .

Speaker 1 1:15:57

I never want the sexual development model to be a weapon , something that you would use to tell somebody why they're wrong and why you're right , but rather a posture of appreciation as well as questioning assumptions and ultimately helping each other grow . For those of you who are experiencing intense internal conflict about your sexuality , I hope the sexual development model helps you take a deep breath . It helps you take a deep breath . I hope it leads to a sigh of relief that you're human , you're not abnormal , you're not in some special category of unwanted sexual attraction . Your sexuality is good and we're all in the process of growing and outgrowing unwanted sexual behavior , especially pornography , and learning to believe the truest thing about you , which is this you are God's beloved son . In you he is well-pleased .