Healing Men's Wounds From Women

Speaker 1 0:01

Welcome to the Husband Material podcast , where we help Christian men outgrow porn . Why ? So you can change your brain , heal your heart and save your relationship . My name is Drew Boa and I'm here to show you how let's go . Hey man , thank you for listening to today's episode about how women hurt men and how women can help men heal from wounds caused by women . I am really interested in this topic , and I hope you are too , because there is a dimension of our ongoing healing and growth which cannot fully happen with just men , and today we have the perfect guest to talk about this .

Speaker 1 0:46

Britta Eske has been working with men on their feminine wounds for years and years , and she actually trains others to do this work . She is a neuroaffective , relational model , trauma-informed professional . She is a certified compassion cultivation teacher . She comes from a Catholic background and works with people from all different kinds of faiths and perspectives . I really enjoyed our conversation and it is getting me really excited about what is possible between men and women .

Speaker 1 1:15

And before we begin , there needs to be a disclaimer about this episode . Please do not use these insights against your wife or another woman in your life who you're close to , because if you're a married man listening to this episode , you might be tempted to take the truth that women can hurt men and use that to blame or shame your wife . That's not okay . You also might take the truth that women can help men heal and impose unrealistic and inappropriate expectations on your wife or on another woman in your life . Please use this episode for your own personal growth and healing , and if you are a woman listening to this , my heart goes out to you too . Thank you for your interest and I hope that you are able to do your own work around this too .

Speaker 1 2:05

At Husband Material , our goal is to become men who relate to other men and women with curiosity , compassion , connection , courage and kindness Not entitlement , not using others not immature , using others not immature inappropriate ways . So please don't use this episode to should all over someone , including yourself . Rather , use it to show you where your next healing step might lead you . Enjoy the episode . Today we are with Britta Eske , co-founder of Core and author of Initiations in Love , and what you really need to know for today's episode is that she also started the Noble man Workshop , which you will hear a lot more about . Britta , welcome to Husband Material .

Speaker 2 2:53

Thank you , I'm so excited to be here .

Speaker 1 2:56

I am excited too . We are talking about how women can help men heal . What is that all ?

Speaker 2 3:04

about how Women Can Help Men Heal . What is that all about ? Through the no Women Workshop , which is basically a space where women hold space for men and then men go through their stuff with women , you know , like any wounds from mom to you know , ex-partner to girlfriend , to former , to wife , to whoever right , Teacher or sister or someone some feminine influence in their life .

Speaker 1 3:29

In your book you say that a friend of yours spoke some very powerful words . He said we as men have inflicted so much pain on women and at the same time , women have also inflicted pain on us men .

Speaker 2 3:48

Yeah , and it's true . And you know , when I first started this work myself , I didn't really believe that I thought men really were the perpetrators , right , and that's also what it's all you know . I was like a really strong feminist , all you know . I was like a really strong feminist and I was like , I am not going to be suppressed any longer . And there is a truth to it . There is obviously a history of men having abused women , and men are simply physically stronger , so you know just that . So that's true . And on top of that , there's also another truth , which is that women have also hurt men . I would say there is a shadow masculine and there's a shadow feminine , and the shadow feminine is not spoken about very often , right , and it's almost like we're not allowed to say that .

Speaker 1 4:40

So when you say the shadow feminine , you mean the shadow side or the dark side of women been healed , that is unresolved in us as women .

Speaker 2 5:07

Of course we're going to pass that on to our sons or brothers , or just men in our life . We're going to project that right . So that's just human nature . So this is one of the things I learned from being at the Nobleman Workshop that like I was like this first time I write about that in the book too , like just the first time seeing these men walk in there and then having them share what happened to them , like my heart just broke , you know , and like I was like , oh my God , I had no idea what you're carrying right . Like in some way it's even harder than for women in one way , because men don't talk about it that much . You know . Women get together and talk about that a lot , right , but men , as far as I know , you know , don't so much . I know you help them talk about this kind of stuff , thank God .

Speaker 1 5:57

Right ? Well , it is rare for men to be able to talk about our wounds , our trauma , and not just to talk about it , but to truly feel it . And it's even more rare for that to happen in a room with women . Where men and women are together is even more rare . When you're in that space with men opening up about their wounds in relation to women , what kinds of things do you hear ?

Speaker 2 6:24

Yeah , so it starts with mom , right , that makes sense , right . So I hear a lot of men where their moms have sort of used them . You know , as they are , let's say they're in unhappy marriages , right , and again they don't have their needs met with the husbands . Then their sons become their surrogate husbands , you know they , they have to fulfill all that . They become their confidant , they're like even become their lover , like this is how bad it can get . Right , like that happens too . I know we always say that happens to the , to the girls , but it also happens to the boys , you know , and it's terrible and totally confusing right and very deeply wounding right Because we trust mom . Right , like mom is the first image of God you could say right , so it's very painful and I'm really sorry to hear that happen to you .

Speaker 1 7:25

Well , I would never have said that until getting into deeper healing work and then realizing that what I thought was love was actually my mother needing to be loved and caring for me so that she could also have some kind of closeness because she was so alone . Yeah , and that really shaped my sexuality . It shaped my relationship with pornography as well , and we have a lot of men who have identified enmeshment in their story , especially with their moms .

Speaker 2 8:00

So that's one side of the spectrum . Is enmeshment or being used as a stand-in husband or something . The other side is neglect . You know , and there's like a lot of men that didn't get attuned to , that didn't get their needs met , that , as boys , mom just wasn't there . You know she was super busy or whatever , distracted with her own trauma . You know like occupied and they just have no imprint of closeness or love or attunement or connection with mom . You know like occupied and they just have . They just have no imprint of closeness or love or attunement or connection with mom . You know , so that's leaves them starving for connection , right , like that's the other side of it . Right , like mom was really harsh , they were never good enough , like it was like , you know , there was so much pressure put on them to be a certain something , somebody , something for mom . You know like so and they were never good enough . There's a whole spectrum from anything that can happen in parenting can happen to a little boy .

Speaker 1 9:04

I'm also hearing stories of men who had sexual experiences with older women when they were little boys , but they didn't think of that as abuse because it came from a woman .

Speaker 2 9:16

Yeah , yeah , so that's something to really . When it comes from a woman , it's harder to wrap your head around that it's oh , this is also abuse , right ? It's clear . When it comes from an older man to a girl , right ? When it comes that older women do that too , I don't even know . People know that . You know that this happens , right . So now I don't know the percentage and in a certain way , does that matter so much ? Because what matters is the individual person and what has happened to him or her .

Speaker 1 9:50

So much because what matters is the individual person and what has happened to him or her .

Speaker 2 9:58

So true , many men in our community also feel hurt by their wives , which is complicated because they have also hurt their wives so much too . Yeah , life is complicated , you know , like . This is one thing I'm really discovering over the years is it's so complex , like these easy stereotype kind of things , that we think about life . They're just not true . You can be really hurtful to someone and they can also be hurtful to you . I think that's actually what happens a lot , right , and you don't know who started and does it even matter ? Or like who started being hurtful ? Like in one way , it's like , yes , maybe that doesn't matter , but in another way , it's like let's just go deeper than that and get to the bottom of what we all need .

Speaker 2 10:39

You know , and why are we behaving so unskillful , right ? Which is why , I think you know , when I read about your work , I was like , oh , this is so good . You know , like that you're going to the underneath . You know , like , why am I doing this ? What am I trying to get to to behave in this way ? That is so unskillful and so hurtful , right , in terms of women hurting men . I believe that , on a global level or an unconscious level , it may be because of what had happened , what has happened to women over the thousands of years , you know like of of that kind of suppression , that it may be that women are letting it out on the men . You know who knows right , but it's like somewhere we're gonna stop and right and just go . Okay , let's look at what . What's my part of it right ? What's my part of it right ?

Speaker 1 11:29

What's my part of this ? Yeah , perhaps rather than expecting my wife or my mother or someone else in my life to finally change .

Speaker 2 11:38

Yeah .

Speaker 1 11:40

Good point .

Healing Men Through Female Empowerment

Speaker 1 11:41

The reason I mentioned that is because I sometimes can unfairly project onto my wife that she has to be the one who heals my wounds around the feminine . I mean that can happen , but in the Noble man Workshop you have women who men have never met before helping them heal . What's the power of having a woman who's separate from your life come into your healing journey ?

Speaker 2 12:12

Well , I think it's much easier because you don't have all this history with that person you know although sometimes their wives are present , you know , also present like depending if they've also done their work , like these are all people , the people that are staffing or holding space , are all people that have done a lot of inner work , because you need to be able to hold that kind of space of unconditional presence and attunement and connection and not taking anything personally . Well , if you're the wife of someone , that is much harder , right . Or the mother of someone or the you know , like if you're connected . So in a certain sense , it's easier , much easier when it's strangers and you know , sometimes , when you hear it out of the mouth of a stranger , you go oh , that's my story you know , like and and it's less charged with personal history .

Speaker 2 13:06

And all that for and protection .

Speaker 1 13:09

Yeah how do women help men heal ?

Speaker 2 13:13

And so you know , also in my book I write about how this all started , which was like my former partner and I sitting around the kitchen table and our male friend , who was also a facilitator and did his own men's work , came in and he said what you can do with men is love them . That's what you can do . And it just rang a bell . It was just like ooh , oh , like it was just like so simple , but it was like , oh , love them , like give them sort of like this sweet , devotional , caring , maternal , feminine love that they're craving right without wanting , without wanting anything from them .

Speaker 1 13:57

And without some kind of sexual dimension to it .

Speaker 2 14:00

Yeah and no , it was a very safe , non-sexual space .

Speaker 2 14:04

So that whole thing is just taken off , you know , like , which creates a lot of trouble , right , and like in terms of like , there's very clear boundaries of what is allowed and what is not allowed . So that's very clear , right , and you take all that off and then they walk into this almost womb-like space you could say , right , where they're just loved , and they can , you know , say it all , put it all out , tell all their stories , and they don't have to protect women . This is another important piece . We say this right at the beginning you do not have to protect us , you don't have to be nice , we just want you to be real , just , and we can hold it . We have our own stories that are not so pretty , you know , and so let's just lay it all out and trust in essential goodness , right , like similar to what I see in your body of work that if you just kind of go deep enough and then quiet do , you will get to something good there's something good that wants to happen , because we're essentially good .

Speaker 2 15:04

God made us in his image , right , so we're essentially good and so we can trust . If we unravel enough , we're going to get somewhere to something beautiful , you know , and that's what happens yes , it has been material .

Speaker 1 15:18

Oftentimes that looks like getting in touch with the little boy in me . What we do is take men into their masculinity and help them grow up , but what you do and what your organization does is so , so important that we don't do which is allowing a man to receive emotionally healthy love from a woman .

Speaker 2 15:43

Yeah , and it's interesting . It is a lot about the little boy , of course , because that's where this all started , but it doesn't stay there . You know like it's like it's not like we just kind of coddle them the whole time or something . You know it's like once that need is fulfilled , right , then I'm sure that's the same in your work Then the men that they are because they really aren't little boys , right , they are men right arises , you know , like in a very empowered way , right , because that little boy is integrated right and not kind of shoved aside , right .

Speaker 2 16:19

So , and I tell you , it's really beautiful for women to see that . You know to see men empowered , like not macho men or like or dominating men , you know , but also not kind of wimpy men that are this kind of like victims and like , you know , and complaining and like disconnecting and , you know , whining or something . You know like it's like . It's like actually men that are really empowered and have , with an open heart . You know like that is really beautiful to see for women , you know , because you know women become a little emasculating women . You know , because you know women become a little emasculating , you know like and controlling a lot Like there's a lot of relationships where the women are controlling the show because the men have sort of given up .

Speaker 1 17:07

Or the women have taken control appropriately , since the man has been sabotaging their lives with his secret sexual behavior , been sabotaging their lives with his secret sexual behavior .

Speaker 2 17:18

Yeah , the woman is waiting for the man . You know , like , where's your leadership , right ? You're just kind of stuck in front of a computer , right ? Or you're in your la-la land or you're just not present , you know . And then often the women do what needs to be done for the family , and you know , and just kind of take charge , right , like they also long for a man who stands up and is strong and present , and so it's lovely to see that happen in such a short time . You know like to for that masculine , beautiful , masculine , empowered presence to arise . And then women go . Oh , I can let go , right , I can relax , like it's safe now .

Speaker 1 18:01

Can you share some stories of what healing looks like for men at a workshop with women facilitating ?

Speaker 2 18:09

Can look very different ways , right , like that this is about as diverse as as the stories are with the men , right , but like , usually they come in some kind of crisis , right , like they either just got divorced or they have had difficulties in relationships , like maybe they've gone through one after the other or they can't commit . Right , like they just can't say yes , no , no , women's ever good enough . Or like different stories , right , but usually there's some kind of crisis point , some kind of . Sometimes their wife is like going , if you don't do something , I'm out of here . That also sometimes happens , right , which is not so great , but they get there somehow somehow , you know so , usually , yeah , someone always ends up back to what happened with mom a lot , right , like what happened in your early life with the feminine that had that caused that disconnection , right , and then that kind of unravels .

Speaker 2 19:06

We do a lot of different things , but a lot of embodied processes and a lot of sharing . And then so there's men that didn't think they were husband material , for example , and then found , got married , had children , found that they are really good at this , actually , you know so , for example , right , or yeah , men that just , let's say they had a divorce and they're like they are not trusting women anymore . That they opened up again to trust . That has also happened . Yeah , anymore . That they opened up again to trust , that has also happened .

Speaker 2 19:40

Yeah , just profound healing with whoever they needed healing with right some . It could even be like with another woman in your life . It could be like for my uh husband . It was with his stepmother , you know we didn't even acknowledge existed kind of thing , even though she was a mother figure his whole life . You know , like that after that workshop he went to her and apologized for not ever seeing her , you know , and and like so . A lot of like all of a sudden being present with someone in your life . Sometimes it's apologizing something , it's like being honest about something that doesn't work for you or , you know , so could be many different things .

Speaker 1 20:22

My imagination is spinning just thinking about what that can be , and I know that healing friendships with women have been a big part of my story as well .

Speaker 2 20:35

See , sometimes it's like the only woman we relate to is your wife or your family members . Right , like barely , and it's like , and there's such beautiful friendships available between men and women . Right , and it's so rare that that actually can happen in a non-sexual safe . You know , brotherly , sisterly , sisterly way , right , that is so enriching and so many people don't have that , you know , maybe they have a wife or a girlfriend or something , but that's it in terms of closeness with the feminine right and there's so much more available , like on all these levels a lot of guys don't feel safe or they don't see opportunities .

Speaker 2 21:20

Yeah , yeah , understandably , women don't feel safe either . You know , like safety is a big issue , right , how to create safety and a container , and I think sometimes it's just we just have to experience it once that this is possible , right . Like , oh , oh , like I can be close to someone and I can share and I can learn and I can like this , like be brotherly , you know , and sisterly with someone , and it's really enriching and it's safe and it's OK , right . So sometimes you just need to experience it , right .

Speaker 1 22:00

Absolutely .

Speaker 2 22:02

You said that men coming to these workshops wanted to know not just what it was to be a man among men , but also what it meant to be a man among women that is safer mostly not for everyone , but you know like it's , and it's like to really kind of know what it is like to be a man among men and to be to heal your wounds with the brothers and all that kind of stuff , right and then . But that is only one step right , because the other half of humanity is still there , the other half of humanity is missing . And so to be , to take that step , to be a man among women , is it's another step , isn't it ? Yeah , it certainly is .

Speaker 2 22:57

I just wanted to say to the men here that are listening that I feel like you've really been battered up about this . You know like , and I want to say I'm sorry for you just having to take all the blame for everything bad that happens . You know like I don't think that's fair , and I just want to say like I think it's beautiful that you're a man . I think men are beautiful . The masculine is beautiful and , of course , has a shadow side , but so does the feminine , right , and let's , let's just bring the beauty out in each other .

Speaker 1 23:33

So your organization hosts these workshops every few months , multiple times a year , for a select group of men . Can you say more about that ?

Speaker 2 23:44

for a select group of men . Can you say more about that ? Interesting enough , my organization , core right , like , doesn't actually produce these workshops anymore . We have we have , like satellite organizations that , so people that we've trained right that now have taken these workshops to their communities . So there's different places . For example , one is in Colorado , right , where people put on these workshops , and sometimes my husband and I still go and facilitate , but we don't produce them anymore , right , but they're on our website and everything .

Speaker 2 24:13

It takes a brave soul to do this , right , like . I'm always amazed that somebody comes right and it puts themselves in the hand of the women , right , like often they don't know anybody else there , like , they just somehow landed there and they're like oh my God , what have I done ? So they usually don't walk out like that . Yeah , so there's three and a half days and we've been into initiations . That's what also the title of my book is , right Initiations and Love Meaning that we're holding like a particular space where you come in one way and you come out another . You go through a real vital passage , right , and you are seen and witnessed by the women in it .

Speaker 1 25:04

So beautiful . If someone's interested , what's the next step ?

Speaker 2 25:12

I would say they go to our website , to the no Women page , check it out . There's always discovery calls they can do if they're not sure that they that's the right thing for them . You know , there's also I think they happen every two months or so like intro events , like short two hour events where women are actually there and holding the process and then the men can check it out what it's like to . These are online , right , so just kind of check it out . What is it like if I participate in this , with women leading it and , you know , sharing about my relationship with a feminine ?

Speaker 1 25:39

awesome . I'm putting all of the links for Britta , her book CORE and the Nobleman Workshop in the show notes for this episode

Unity Through Male-Female Healing

Speaker 1 25:50

. Britta , what is your favorite thing about women helping men heal ?

Speaker 2 25:58

So the favorite thing is really in the initiations . So there's a man sort of in the middle of a center , right and surrounded by women and his brothers , and goes through this process . And there's a moment when and everybody feels it when it's just like this is how it's supposed to be , this is how the best of women and the best of men are supposed to be together . You know , this is like unity , right ? It's like oh , oh , this is how the puzzle fits together . You know , like this is how it's meant to be and it's even better than you think it is , like that's how beautiful it is and there's a reason why we're made male and female , and I truly believe that there's something in there . When men and women heal , the world heals . You know , like the world has a chance to heal because we need both . We need the best of women and we need the best of men to come forth now , right , like it's time , so good .

Speaker 1 27:03

I'm excited to explore this for myself and see what can happen with our community as we begin to heal , not just with other men , but with women too .

Speaker 2 27:13

Yeah .

Speaker 1 27:14

Gentlemen , thank you for listening to this whole thing . Always remember you are God's beloved son and you he is well pleased .