Welcome And Mission

SPEAKER_04 0:00

Welcome to the Husband Material Podcast, where we help Christian men outgrow porn. Why? So you can change your brain, heal your heart, and save your relationship. My name is Drew Boa, and I'm here to show you how. Let's go.

Meet Blake And Jamie

SPEAKER_04 0:19

Today I am delighted to be talking with Blake Roberts and Jamie Haig of the 3% podcast. They are friends, therapists, and just for tinkles and toots, we're having this conversation.

SPEAKER_00 0:32

I wondered how quickly he would try to work that in.

SPEAKER_01 0:36

Well done. Well done. That's a good callback. Yeah. Drew, thanks for having us on, man. We're excited to be here. Yeah. You're welcome.

First Steps Into Recovery Rooms

SPEAKER_01 0:44

Where did the idea of 3% come from? 30,000-foot level is that Blake and I, previous to becoming therapists, had landed in counseling, personal counseling, and then recovery, 12-step recovery, sex aholics anonymous for porn addiction, which is appropriate for this podcast. Appropriate. First, getting the courage to walk through the door is a whole mountain to traverse on its own. And then walking in the door, the level of vulnerability in the room is borderline off-putting because of how honest people are. And how not how wrong. I don't think that's the feeling I had in my body when I felt it. It didn't feel wrong. It felt scary, or perhaps like a mix of scary and s and something I I hoped for, but didn't feel like I could obtain. And so all these men and in the essay setting, all these women are sharing very vulnerably about their addiction and what motivated it, how they're learning to care for themselves in it. And I was stunned by the honesty and vulnerability of that. Cut to months later, Blake and I probably met, and that was in 2018, early 2018, we met.

SPEAKER_00 2:25

I just think it's important for these listeners to know when you said you were stunned by the level of vulnerability in those rooms. We both grew up in church and have been part of many men's groups, men's ministries settings where vulnerability maybe was there or was the intention was for it to be there. So it was like not that being in a group where we're doing some level of heartwork was foreign, but the to the depth of those groups, right? That level of vulnerability was foreign. And I just think like that's an important part of the story as well.

SPEAKER_01 3:02

Important note for sure. Blake and I were at the time some of the younger guys in SA. And I would say now it every time I go back, I see guys who were that age. And I love that. I feel like it's grown in terms of its accessibility, at least around here. I know that recovery is a little more less stigmatized in Nashville, I think, than some other cities.

SPEAKER_00 3:29

Well, for the listeners who don't know, SA in particular, Nashville, Greater Nashville area is like the hub. Yeah, it's the headquarters. The headquarters. So there's meetings. Three times a day, seven days a week here.

SPEAKER_01 3:42

So there's so much access to care here for that. And I think we watched it just explode, which has its mixture of grief and gratitude at the same time. Right.

Building Friendship Through Phone Calls

SPEAKER_01 3:54

So because we were the young dudes in the meeting, our sponsors were like, you guys should be friends. And because you're young, and one of the pillars of any kind of recovery is making phone calls rather than acting out when you're starting to feel as you become accustomed to attuning to the urges and the vulnerabilities, making phone calls to check those things in, which Blake and I were not doing great. And to our sponsor's credit, some of that barrier to entry for me was the age of the people I was being asked to call. So they like set us up to on like a blind friendship date. And we talked at a meeting immediately after Blake calls me and is like, I if I didn't call now, I wasn't gonna do it. And then we've talked nearly every day since. And I would say out of those nine years, maybe there's like a cumulative four months. Yeah. If you put all the days that we didn't talk together, probably four months out of those nine years.

SPEAKER_04 5:00

Like on a phone call or in person?

SPEAKER_01 5:02

One or the other. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:04

We've kind of lived on separate ends of Nashville. Ends of Nashville. So now that we're doing three percent, we're together in person at least once a once a week and have been for the last year and a half. But before that, most of the time would just be on the phone.

SPEAKER_01 5:19

Yeah, I even think that's important to name for a lot of people that like our friendship was not in person.

SPEAKER_00 5:27

Even though we live in the same city.

SPEAKER_01 5:28

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:29

We built this city on phone calls. But I promise we are gonna get to the 3% meaning.

SPEAKER_04 5:36

I'm making my way there. We're gonna get to the meaning of 3%, we're gonna get to tinkles and toots, but right now, it is so amazing to me that you didn't settle for text messages or even recorded voice messages. That real-time conversation is how this friendship formed and that it's been so consistent. I mean, yeah, once a week is great, right? Almost every day is almost unheard of.

SPEAKER_01 6:07

Yeah, it turns out I didn't want to just watch porn once a week.

SPEAKER_00 6:13

Fair. And also it my perspective, like we were both hurting so bad. Yes. And one of the beautiful things for me about something like 12-step recovery and having to make phone calls is you I started making phone calls because I had this trigger or whatever, and I started to get familiar with my pattern and if I can make a connection. If we're if we're saying that pornography addiction or unwanted sexual behavior is is really a connection issue, then that's the whole point of making phone calls is to connect and have real intimacy, not settle for this fake intimacy. And so that's like how it started as sort of this like, well, all these old heads and recovery are essentially saying this is what you need to do. And so I'm just kind of forcing myself to do that. And that was helpful. And then there wasn't one particular moment, but just over time it turned from I'm call we're calling each other to say, oh, hey, this is this trigger that I had, and I don't want to act out, to like, this is like the emotion I'm feeling, and I just need to process it, or this is like it just became more about all of the things that are underneath the the acting out behavior. And uh turns out we really needed that and wanted to do it, and didn't have I would say for each of us, we both have very different, but like in some ways similar, just harm from other men in our lives, right? Yeah, and so the like that friendship that was fostered was very healing for both of us in different ways that we had never had before, even having lots of other friends. Yeah, and good friends, yeah, lots of other good friends, yeah, yeah. And so it was never like we're gonna talk on the phone every day, right? It just was like a daily choice, and then look back and it's like, wow, that's been a long time, and there's there's a lot of relational equity. And I can I can forget how unnatural that is. Me too. When I have other friends that I'm close with that are like, you talk how I don't even talk to my wife that much. I'm like, that's a problem. It started as more preventative or or not even preventative, sort of like reactionary most of the time. Yeah, like I'm on fire. Yeah, and then it started to turn into more preventative, sort of sort of self-care. And then there would be times where like it just becomes habitual, and now where going to porn used to be habitual, now calling somebody is habitual, and I get in the car and I'm like, Oh, I don't even and then he answers, I'm like, I don't even know why I called you. Yeah, but here's how I'm feeling today, and then just a structure of care at a certain point.

SPEAKER_01 9:02

Yeah. So yeah, we're making these phone calls, and that probably goes on for a number of months. We become really tight friends, become pretty familiar with each other's stories, and we're attending meetings, and we're still having whatever you want to call them, relapses, slips, whatever.

From Triggers To Daily Care

SPEAKER_01 9:29

And we're in the room where we're trying to be honest, we're seeing all this honesty around us, we recognize that this is like 97% honest. It happened on a f on one of the phone calls at some point. One of us said to the other, like, well, that's only like 97% of the truth. The other 3% is. And that kind of unlocked for us this tool, this permission slip to say, Hey, I need to share my 3% with you. That became our shorthand for when we had stuff with our addiction or relational conflict with each other or a relational thing with our spouses that we just didn't want to admit to anybody. And then we started, I we started using it with our spouses, and so it became this broader tool that we used to encourage not the vulnerability that I'm familiar with, but the vulnerability that feels like a sacrifice of self, but is really the entry point into real change.

SPEAKER_00 10:39

Yeah. And to give these listeners an example of what that could look like, say it's a check-in call, the 97% of the truth would be I looked at porn. I'll just use a very basic example. Like, I looked at porn, I masturbated. Yeah. That's very honest and very vulnerable, and way more than I would have done pre-recovery. And helpful. And helpful. The 3% though would be like this is the particular type of porn that I looked at. And I actually don't want to tell you that part because I'm really ashamed of it.

SPEAKER_01 11:15

And I'm noticing it as a theme, and I keep coming back to it, and it makes me feel worthless.

SPEAKER_00 11:21

Yeah. So that's behaviorally, if if you're using 3% as a permission slip to be more honest about your behavior, for these listeners, that's kind of an example. And then yeah, it also could be used like when we have a conflict with each other and I'm mad at him or hurt by something he said, like to say that is not familiar or vulnerable. So to say, like, our kind of our tagline is we believe at our very best that men are 97% honest with themselves and others, and it's the 3% we keep to ourselves that keeps us bound to shame and loneliness. And from there, a lot of other issues stem. So that can be used in so many different contexts. Like, and so when you know what the meaning is, then to say, I need to share my 3% with you. In those five words, it says, What I'm about to say is pretty vulnerable. I feel scared of it. I have a fear that you're probably going to judge me. I actually don't want to say it, but I know I need to because it's important. I need you to really listen. I don't need you to be sarcastic or make a joke right now. That's something that happens a lot in male friendships. It communicates so it's like he said, a permission slip, a quick entry point into what I'm about to say is like I it's vulnerable and I need you to really meet me there.

Naming The Missing Three Percent

SPEAKER_04 12:38

Yeah. I am going to start using that phrase, and I hope men in our community will do the same. I need to share my 3% with you because that says so much. It creates the type of environment we truly want to have.

SPEAKER_00 12:52

Yeah. Yeah. So it's funny, Drew, when we became eventually him and I both become therapists at different times, and then we both have entrepreneurial backgrounds, and we were like, we want to do something in addition to our private practices together, because that would be fun. And we thought we were going to do this like branding agency. Turns out that's not where our heart was. We wanted to create spaces and tools for men to experience some more of what we've experienced in 12 step in church and men's groups, and like the the good parts of that, and as therapists. And we were like throwing around all these names, and one day we're like, oh, it's right in front of us. Like, let's just call it 3%.

unknown 13:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:34

We'll have to explain that, but like, that's the foundation of whatever we end up building the podcast, the group, like whatever it's going to turn into, that's the foundation is how do we as men become more honest and vulnerable with ourselves, with others, and with God? Because when we do that, then we become safer men for ourselves and others, and then everybody around benefits that. So on our show, we kind of explore that theme with a variety of different guests in different fields. What does it mean to be a safer man? What is holistic masculinity actually look like? And we think that true 3% honesty and vulnerability is a necessary ingredient to continue becoming that. I don't think it's something we become and arrive at, but like we're always continuing to we have 3% that we're sharing right before we get on this podcast. Like it's just it's not an arrival point.

SPEAKER_01 14:35

Yeah. It's a necessary part of maintaining or cultivating authenticity to me.

SPEAKER_00 14:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 14:41

There continues to be 3% more and 3% more.

SPEAKER_00 14:44

Early on in recovery, my 3% of maybe some version of this is before I became a therapist. Let me clarify that. When I was working in retail, like I was at work and I saw this girl and I thought she was attractive, and I kind of started fantasizing about like being with that person. That would be that's still pretty, that's actually really vulnerable. But what I'm trying to say is my 3% has been different in different stages. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_04 15:12

Yeah. I have an example of that, and it's gonna take some courage for me to share it.

A Real Example Of 3%

SPEAKER_04 15:18

So I gotta give myself a moment. Yeah, please. And talk about my levels of vulnerability. One level of vulnerability would be for me to say that a sexual fetish has been a huge part of my story, and always the focus of my search is in porn. The next level would be to say that it was always for girls and women with braces, like orthodontics have been the thing for me. There's a whole story behind that. But then the next level of vulnerability would be to say that oftentimes the people who have braces are teenagers. And that is where my current edge is of sharing some of the thoughts and feelings that come up for me.

SPEAKER_01 16:09

Thank you. So vulnerable. And it's it's so interesting too, because now like you get to experience somebody's three percent, every everything in me goes like, oh, I totally get if I don't resonate with the content of it, I totally know how it feels for that to be holding so much space and to get it, get to watch it like release from someone. What a gift to witness.

SPEAKER_04 16:41

It's really sacred, it's holy when we share at that level. And it also feels like bungee jumping or riding a roller coaster that I can't get off of once I've strapped in, you know? It's yeah, it's really a redemptive risk. That's the language we use at Husband Material. It's taking a redemptive risk.

SPEAKER_00 17:03

Ooh, I like that. I love that. Yeah, because it is a risk. It's one of the things we talk about in our in our community is like we kind of need to be coached sometimes of how to receive somebody else's three percent, how to receive it, but also how to be aware of who deserves to hold your three

Who Deserves To Hold It

SPEAKER_00 17:25

percent. Because not everybody does. Yeah, like you said, it's sacred. And Drew, what you said is so true that it is a risk, and sometimes you take the risk, and oftentimes what I've experienced is you're met with the opposite of whatever fear you have. They're gonna reject me, they're gonna judge me, they're gonna leave. Oftentimes the case is it's the opposite of whichever whatever you're afraid of, which is then what we would call in therapeutic language a corrective emotional experience, and that soothes something in me. And there are times where that 3% can be manipulated by somebody else or be used to their advantage. I remember the first therapist I ever saw, I was seeing him in conjunction with getting into recovery, and I had been like not vulnerable in church ministry my whole life, and and college, like or leading a campus ministry, and like in all these spaces, but I was not, nobody really truly knew me, and there's various reasons in my story that impact that. And then I get into recovery and I'm like, oh wait, to share and to be honest is actually necessary and what I've actually been longing for, and I experience this goodness of these other men in these circles receiving me with care. So then I just need to start being more vulnerable and honest with everybody. Let's ride that pendulum. And that created some really interesting situations. And I remember my therapist being like, you know, you don't have to tell everybody everything. What a bar. And I'm like, what do you mean? I I literally part of my story is a suicide attempt in high school. So I could say, like, I literally almost died because I didn't tell anybody anything. What do you mean I don't have to tell everybody everything? And it was this first moment where I was sort of like, oh, wait, not everybody deserves to hold the sacredness of my 3%. Because if somebody isn't engaging in being honest about their own 3%, they're not going to have the capacity to hold yours. And it's not because something's wrong with yours, but it's because it bumps up against their shame of not engaging their own self. So then whatever the resistance, the other side of the risk where you feel judged or they shut down. Like if I were to judge you just now after those levels that you shared, that says way more about me than it does you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 19:57

I've never thought about it quite that way. It's so easy to think the exact opposite. Like, oh, I guess I really am unlovable, or I guess I really am worthy of being condemned or shut down.

SPEAKER_01 20:14

I had a client who he was navigating the difference in vulnerability that he has versus a desire for vulnerability in his girlfriend. She doesn't open up as easily to him. Sometimes he can interpret that as like his vulnerability is too much. And he he had a guy in a recovery group that he's in say, Well, like you've kind of ascended the ivory tower of vulnerability. Like you're, you know, you've reached a level that very few are at, and you're you're dating this person who you love and you adore, and you're expecting her to jump from the base of that tower to the top with you. And I think it's important to remember when you're sharing with someone, this is why it matters that they're sacred, that they're someone who you experience love and trust with. Because as you're sharing that sacred thing for the first time, like I can share now with almost anyone about my addiction or trauma history and their reaction to it, I actually can have curiosity about, and I can witness and not take it personally. And that is very different than when I was in a accountability group ten years ago lying straight through my teeth about having watched porn when I was asked specifically about it. I couldn't even bring myself to be vulnerable in a space where they were asking to care for me. Because I was afraid of their reaction to my imperfection. And now I don't necessarily see someone's reaction to me as them saying I'm imperfect. That was my stuff coming out before. Now I can see if I'm explaining who I am authentically, and someone has a reaction to it, I can see that it's my humanness rubbing up against their humanness. And that maybe they they're in a place where they're navigating their own thing, and that's either shutting them down or coming out sideways on me. So yeah, I think it's really important to remember the safety of the person across from you.

SPEAKER_04 22:40

So we're not only learning to be more honest and unlearning, hiding and lying and minimizing, we're also learning how to show up and respond when someone doesn't have space for our 3%. And learning how to be selective about who we tell.

SPEAKER_01 23:04

Which

When You Feel You Have No One

SPEAKER_01 23:05

feels hard when your social circle is small, or when it feels like, you know, you could be listening to me and Blake talk about friendship, and you're like, I just wish I had a friend. And that that can feel really demoralizing when you're when you're in that spot for us to be like, make sure you're selective, and you're like, I would take anyone. And I think there's a lot of truth to that, and I'm sorry you're in so much pain if you're if you're just wishing you had a friend you could share it with. And what sticks out to me is from a friend of ours named Scott Erickson, who's an artist. Yes. He said, if you are looking to have a good a good friendship, or if you want a deep friendship, go be that friend. So, like, I think we are often in our pain, we get hyper-focused on how there's not the availability of someone, or maybe we get hyper-focused on being friends with this ideal person or someone who's unaccessible. And Scott made the point that, like, there are friends who are waiting for you to be that friend to them. And I think there's no better place than a recovery group to find that, or like a husband material group, whatever space you're in. There's someone waiting for that friend.

SPEAKER_04 24:30

And I think there's also value in befriending ourselves. Maybe that sounds trite. It's not the mature adult Drew who has these sexual feelings I told you about. It's a much younger part of me. And so learning to befriend that boy within me is another part of what my healing has looked like.

SPEAKER_01 24:58

It's so worthwhile.

SPEAKER_04 24:59

Yeah. And so it's not either other people or just myself or just Jesus, but it it can be all of them.

SPEAKER_03 25:09

Yeah.

When Not To Share Yet

SPEAKER_04 25:10

When would you advise someone to not share their three percent?

SPEAKER_01 25:14

Some of that is gonna be a journey of navigating your way back to your intuition and tone the line. You gotta say the line about yeah. So I was abused, Blake was abused, and I believe that abuse of any form, and really like this is hard because I I'm going on a tangent now. Dan Alender says that what is the most subtle is the most satanic in terms of like your story can feel like I don't have this big trauma that I can point to, but it's the subtle things that can be the most satanic towards reorienting your story. And I think all of that can be systematically disorienting towards your intuition. So you go through this process of life, and whether it's attachment, meaning like how you look for care and how you recognize you can receive care and what strategy you take to get it, or it's trauma, whatever it may be, it will systematically disorient you from, in my case, what I believe to be that that still small voice of the Holy Spirit within you, that intuition within you that says, I'm safe to share, or I'm not safe to share. Or this is what I need and this is what I don't need. And I think what I've recognized within me is that I still at times now will dismiss my intuition in the service of what I think is more appropriate in a situation.

SPEAKER_00 27:04

Say it a different way, because it's really good. If I want you to say it more clearly. Can I say it the way I heard it? Please. And you tell me if it if it feels right. Yeah. I can sometimes dismiss my own intuition in a way that I think will make the other person feel better.

SPEAKER_01 27:19

Yeah, partially. Okay. What came to mind was I will sometimes dismiss my own intuition in the service of maintaining relational or situational stability.

SPEAKER_04 27:30

And sometimes we need to trust that, and we've learned to distrust that or dismiss that based on repeated experiences and the systems we've grown up in. So it's it's difficult.

SPEAKER_01 27:42

So concisely, one way that you could know to not share your 3% or to share it is if you do the work to connect to your intuition. Another way that I'm I'm recognizing is really important to name for me is are you using your 3% in order to like gain relational equity with someone?

SPEAKER_00 28:07

Like is it manipulative?

SPEAKER_01 28:09

Yeah, yeah. Like what's your motivation for sharing the 3%? Are you doing it in order to I I think of like the drama triangle? Are you using it because you feel like you're in a victim spot and you want to get out of it? And so you're like, well, woe is me. Here's my three percent. That's an inappropriate, like three percent is for the purpose of becoming like Christ. So you share it in the spaces where it would be in the service of I'm being known and loved, and because of being known and loved, I'm free to become more like Christ.

SPEAKER_04 28:45

Sometimes sharing my three percent can almost be like, hey, look at me, how vulnerable I can be.

SPEAKER_03 28:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 28:51

Yeah. It can also be this twisted kind of sacrifice of like, I'm going to crucify myself by being vulnerable so that someone else can benefit, but it's actually harmful to me.

SPEAKER_00 29:07

Yeah. Totally. Well said. Yeah. Well said.

Why Someone Else Must Know

SPEAKER_00 29:10

Here's how I would answer that question, Drew. I may have to close my eyes so I could like formulate it because it's like kind of there.

SPEAKER_01 29:17

And then I'll cut you off when you're wrong.

SPEAKER_00 29:19

Cool. When you say when do I when do I know not to share my three percent? I everything y'all have said is like spot on and true. And those are good examples of when to not share it. Maybe like part B that I would add to that question is how do I know who is not safe to share my three percent with? Because I don't personally believe, I think we're on the same page here. I don't know if we've ever said this. I don't think that it's ever okay to not share the three percent at all. Like, I think I could hold it. I could hear somebody listening to that question and the part of them that is afraid of vulnerability, being like, oh, okay, good. There's like a thing that I can latch on to that can confirm the part of me that wants to just not share my three percent. That's I'm gonna say this, people can have their feelings about it. I don't know that I even believe of like, oh, well, this is just between me and God.

SPEAKER_01 30:21

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 30:22

Like, I'm not gonna share this with anybody else. This is just between me and God. Like I my wife or like my closest friend. I'm not gonna like I I ask God for forgiveness of this behavior, and and that's all I need to do. I'm not gonna share with anybody else. I just have had enough of my own pain in my life of convincing myself out of my fear that I didn't need to share the 3%. And I have had enough pain from other people who, in their own pain, convinced themselves that they didn't need to share the three percent. So, what I'm trying to say is I don't think it's ever okay to just not share the 3% with another person because I think God has put people in our lives that can be the hands and feet of Jesus, not to do it perfectly, but to have like an extension of grace and empathy in a way that is really tangible for us. So when I'm thinking about a 3% that I need to share, I'll say it this way: the people that I feel most afraid to share my 3% with are the people who I in my core know are going to receive it in a way that is healing for me. Those are the people that I'm actually scared of sharing it with, not the people that I know are gonna handle it poorly. I'm not scared to share it with them because I've already experienced that and I'm there's I'm like, I don't want to do that again. Yeah. The people who I am most afraid of sharing it with are the people who I need to share it with because they're gonna meet me in a way, maybe eventually, even if it's after some hurt and anger, because that's okay. Like if I can share my 3% with Jamie, and he can still be hurt by it. He can still be impacted by it if it's something I did to him or didn't do, yeah. Or my wife, but they are still at the end of the day gonna meet me with the compassion that I am struggling to give myself, again, back to them being the hands and feet of Jesus, that then will help me receive that compassion.

SPEAKER_04 32:28

Amen. Is any of that clear? Yes, yes. So, in other words, if some of my three percent has never been shared with anyone, that is a problem. And another human needs to know we can't just have this me and God secret. Yeah, like it has to be shared with someone.

SPEAKER_01 32:55

Proverbs 28:13. People who conceal their sins will not prosper, but if they confess and turn from them, they will receive mercy. I can always read verses like that as a condemnation. Yep. I can read it through the lens of shame. And if I allow myself to, I can read that and I can see that the reason I will not prosper is because I am believing that I am my own savior by holding on to my 3%. I believe that I know what is best to do with something that biblically it is clear I am not supposed to do this with. I am not supposed to conceal my sin. So I, by holding it and believing that I know what is best for my life, and I can compassionately ask myself, has that been working? And then I read in the second half, but if they confess and turn from them, they will receive mercy. Like, boy, I would love that. So it is no condemnation, it is a compassion, but is it a compassion that requires action? And that is scary. Yeah, I think we both align on the there is no part of my three percent that I want to be holding on to alone, and I think that I experience the hands and feet of Jesus more when I don't hold any of that alone.

SPEAKER_04 34:31

Amen. This is fantastic. Blake and Jamie, thank you so much for sharing so powerfully.

Mental Clarity And Choosing Life

SPEAKER_04 34:39

What is your favorite part about being 100% honest?

SPEAKER_01 34:45

The immediate answer that comes to mind is mental clarity. I think the brain fog of addiction is subtly depressing. And I think it's hard to even know you're in it when you're in it, and then you come out of it, and it is almost like if you're driving in the rain and it's like pouring down rain, and then you hit that moment when you go under a bridge and the noise is gone, and you're like, Oh, can we stay under the bridge? It's so it's so clear here. So, somehow, if you could also incorporate sunshine into that, because it also feels like that at the same time. But to me, being a hundred percent honest feels like a form of mental clarity, which I think is a version of a taste of freedom for me.

SPEAKER_00 35:42

I would say a couple things. One is there are certainly, and most likely always will be, and I'm okay with that, I can surrender that, parts of me that are repulsed at the question you even asked. Like that being 100% honest would be something that I enjoy so much as that I can pull out my favorite thing of it. There are parts of me that are like, yeah, F that. So that's I want listeners to know that even in us creating this whole thing and really trying to help other people, it doesn't mean that I every day am like, oh, I'm so ready to be 100% honest today, I can't wait. That is there. Those parts of me they can care for them in the ways that I that I need to care for them. The other thing that came to mind is, as I alluded to it earlier, I attempted suicide in high school, and as the result of many feelings within me that I didn't know how to deal with, and it all came to the surface, and my parents were going through a divorce, and my dad had three affairs. There was so much happening externally, and so much happening in my body that I was not at all connected with. And then I cheated on my girlfriend on spring break with one of her friends. She found out we get back from spring break, and I'm at her house trying to convince her that it wasn't true, knowing that I was lying. And leaving her house, heading back to my house is when I, long story short, drove very fast into a tree trying to just like get away from all of it. So when you asked that question, I had that image in my mind because it was like not being honest almost took my life, and now I can experience that being a hundred percent honest can lead to life. As you said earlier, Drew, a pretty redemptive experience in my body.

SPEAKER_04 37:43

Amen. Well, thank you for your honesty, for your leadership, for all the tinkles and toots along the way.

Tinkles And Toots Outro

SPEAKER_04 37:53

Now we have to explain what that means.

SPEAKER_01 37:58

Yeah, sure. Uh instead of saying for shits and giggles, I say for tinkles and toots. So I think that I have so many things like that, Drew, that I think you call them Jamieisms.

SPEAKER_00 38:14

Yeah, probably.

SPEAKER_01 38:15

Yeah. But I have like I say chips most of the time instead of cussing. Like I replace almost every cuss word with chips. And it it's just one of those things where like it kind of aligns with what I want to value more and also makes me laugh at the same time and is kind of self-deprecating in a way that feels playful and delightful. So it's the same reason I say tinkles and twos because it's like I want to say shits and giggles, and that doesn't feel as good in my body. You know, it feels great saying tinkles and twos.

SPEAKER_00 38:52

I've never heard you say tinkles and tears.

SPEAKER_01 38:54

Oh, there you go, man. Welcome.

SPEAKER_00 38:55

We should get that on a friends. 3% teacher.

SPEAKER_01 39:00

Well, thank you so much. Yeah, thank you, Drew. This was fun, man.

SPEAKER_04 39:04

It was, and it was really meaningful.

How To Connect With 3%

SPEAKER_04 39:07

Guys, if you want to connect with Blake and Jamie, you can go to 3%co.com. You can learn more about their membership too, called The Basement. And I will put all the links to their information in the show notes. Always remember you are God's beloved son, and you, he is well pleased.