SPEAKER_00: 0:00

Welcome to the Husband Material podcast, where we help Christian men outgrow poor. Why? So you can change your brain, kill your heart, and save your relationship. My name is Drew Boa, and I'm here to show you how. Let's go.

SPEAKER_01: 0:19

Thank you for listening to my interview with Coach Alex Van Houten, who is a wealth of wisdom on the body and fitness. And he gives some really great insights in this episode about how we approach our bodies. You're going to hear about two equally destructive traps we can fall into when pursuing fitness, how this is tied into our biology, our mental health, our emotional maturity, and our sexuality, as well as a call to curiosity about what's happening in our bodies, not just in our sexuality. Enjoy the episode. Welcome to Husband Material. I'm excited to have Alex Van Houten back. He is the founder of Better Daily and the author of a new resource, Faithful Fitness, a 40-day devotional for health, strength, and stewardship. We previously had him on twice to talk about building a porn-free body, which is his area of expertise, fitness, also from a perspective of Christian faith. Welcome back, Alex. What's up, Drew? Thanks so much for having me, man. You're welcome. When I reviewed your resource, Faithful Fitness, there was a concept that really stood out to me called the sins of fitness. Can you say more about that?

SPEAKER_02: 1:30

There's this actual sin spectrum of fitness. On the one end, you have envy and pride, and this might resonate with those who know the idea of the seven deadly sins. Those aren't necessarily biblical ideas except that they're decent classifications of the way that sin manifests in our life. There's pride and envy. This is how do I look? And oh, I want to look like them, and I want to look like him, I want to be like her, or whatever. There's there's that aspect of fitness, that sin aspect of fitness. And on the other side, we have the uh the other side of vanity, which is gluttony and sloth. This is the eating for comfort and to to numb and quell my emotions and to hate the feeling of doing difficult things and not wanting to get outside of my comfort zone and stuff. And on both ends of those spectrums, people get trapped in their fitness journey. And it was very clear to me that that, as Jesus said, the road is narrow. The way in between both of those sin aspects of fitness, there's stewardship, the idea that God gave me this body, and I can make the most of this body in an eternally impactful and important way that isn't gluttony and sloth, and that isn't pride and envy, but is the is the way in the middle. And so I had to hash that out before even explaining to a reader why they would spend 40 days walking this whole path of faith and fitness, because you need to know that it's about stewardship.

SPEAKER_01: 3:06

Yeah, it seems so easy to emphasize fitness and become proud or envious, or to de-emphasize it and become gluttonous or slothful. So how do you stay on that narrow path of healthy stewardship?

SPEAKER_02: 3:23

In part, that's that's why you need 40 days to walk through it, right? It's actually a trial. Those who are familiar with with scripture in the Bible would know that 40 days is an important time frame in faithful fitness. We explore four specific characters in the Bible who endured this 40-day trial transformation process. And so that there's Noah, 40 days and nights in the ark. That's the integrity phase that we spend the first 10 days in. Then there's, we we do with grit, we we spend time with Moses, so 40 days on Mount Sinai with God, getting the Ten Commandments. And then in the growth phase, the the next 10 days, we spend time with David. We've got the Philistine giant taunting the Israelites for 40 days before David finally puts Goliath to rest. And then finally, we spend time with Jesus in the discipline of awe, and that's 40 days in the wilderness, with Satan tempting him at the end and then starting his ministry as we know him to do in the gospel. And so, and so walking this narrow path of stewardship requires trial and transformation. And I would have loved to just write a book about it. Instead, what I ended up having to do was write a devotional so that you can go through the daily process of scripture and meditation and discipline and prayer so that you can find this narrow road in your life.

SPEAKER_01: 4:50

Wouldn't it be easy to just read a book and have your life change? But that's just not how learning works.

SPEAKER_02: 5:01

Outgrowing porn, it's a process. And and you have so many tools in the pages of your book that are they're like, hey, there's some why here, but the how, the how is where the rubber meets the road. The how is where this really comes to be in fruition for your life. And I believe that's actually at the root of what faithful fitness is about, is that when when something happens in our our spirit, it's a part of our body, but our body's slower to get on board. We learn this in in the exercise science world. Let's say I'm like, I need stronger legs. My knees hurt. I need stronger legs. And so so something can change in me that says, hey, my knees hurt, but there's something I can do about this. I'm gonna get stronger legs, right? And so just thinking that doesn't change anything. Like just thinking that and understanding that doesn't change anything about how my body operates. It doesn't fix the pain in my knees. You know, it might, it might make me walk a little bit different, it might make me more cognizant and intentional about certain movements, but it doesn't actually change anything. And so then what I do is I I go, okay, I need stronger legs. What are the exercises that strengthen my legs? And you can do some hamstring curls and you can do some deadlifts, and I hope you do squats with proper form so you don't hurt your knees any worse, and and you do this thing, but once isn't enough. The fibers that make up your muscles and the fibers that make up your tendons and your ligaments, they don't actually strengthen after one bout. So you have to come back to it again, and then you have to come back to it again. And before you know it, this thought, this spiritual commitment, that's what I think it is, this spiritual commitment to take ownership and responsibility of my knees eventually manifests itself with some work in stronger quadriceps, stronger hamstrings, stronger glutes, and a change in movement trajectory. And now my knees don't hurt. So I always think of the body as this process of manifesting things just in a little slower time than maybe the change that happens in our spirit.

SPEAKER_01: 7:04

So our bodies and our souls are very connected. What do you see as the value of working with our biology, like sleep, food intake, exercise in terms of being able to make changes for ourselves sexually or emotionally?

SPEAKER_02: 7:28

You make this point in in your work a lot, and that is that our sexuality is integrated into our body. It's not just our body, but but it's in it's a deep part of how our body and mind speak to each other, and and it's also a deep part of what we desire and care about on a regular basis. Many of the things that you talk about with regard to sexual fantasy, for instance. It's not just this made-up dream-like thing that happens to be arousing. It's a deep part of how we operate and what we desire and what we what motivates and inspires and and even even can be redeeming to our lives. And so when I think about the biology of our body and being a good steward of it, right? Let's say my body is a vessel. That's not all it is, but let's say my body is a vessel. I can do all kinds of things with my body. I can I can love my children well with my body. I can throw my little boys up in the air and catch them before they hit the ground and get that awesome laughter that comes from being a dad. I can hug my wife and I can hold on for more than 10 seconds, you know, and it just feels it feels so nice to be connected in my body. It's not just a vessel, but it is a vessel for for being love and giving love, right? If my vessel is broken down, if my vessel is constantly in pain, if the vessel that I'm operating in on a regular basis feels as though it could be more, but it's not. If it feels as though I have not maintained it well, then each of those actions becomes impeded. Each of those actions becomes not just impeded, something I can't I can't engage in, something that I can't enjoy, but it also carries with it this shame that maybe there's something I haven't done or are doing to myself that's keeping me from doing these things. I'll give a more concrete example. So in in my life, I wrestle with a genetic disorder that makes my body very difficult to manage sometimes. Digestively, joints-wise, it can it can be very devastating to me. And a deep part of what makes me feel connected and joyful and purposeful and meaningful in my life is being a good father. And however you define being a good father, for me, that means being in the mix and having fun and playing games and laughing and being able to kick a soccer ball around and jump on a trampoline and push them way higher than mom wants on the swings, right? That that's part of being a good father in my life. And that's to me, that's a deeply spiritual calling. It's something that I love to be uh engaged in. If my body keeps me from doing that, if if the genetic disorder that I I live with causes a lot of pain in my neck, makes my shoulders dysfunctional, my wrists are popping out of place while I'm pushing them too high on the swings, right? Then what happens is I can't enjoy that thing. I can't, I can't get around the impediment of my body. And if I've done the things that I need to do in order to make the most out of this body God's given me, and I can enjoy those things, then I get I get to feel a sense of satisfaction and peace with my stewardship. But if I have not done those things, if I have not taken my body seriously and cared for myself and treated myself poorly and fed myself poorly, and and not gotten enough rest and those sorts of things, and I find that my body is an impediment, then at the end of the day, I might feel frustrated, I might feel depressed, I might feel less joy, those things, but I also know that at some level that's on me. At some level, that's that's the stewardship of my body that I have neglected. And so for me, these are these are deeply connected things that if I steward my body well, then I can use this vessel that I've been given to to receive love and to give love. And there's so much joy and meaning in that.

SPEAKER_01: 11:49

It's so beautiful, and it's bigger than just feeling better about yourself or having some kind of status based on your body. It's really about overflowing and giving. I love how you're framing fitness as something also for the sake of others. It's it's not just self-absorbed. And that is a big part of what it takes to be free from porn, to have a purpose bigger than yourself, that you're actively pursuing, not just avoiding what's bad, but was receiving what's good and then getting outside of yourself too.

SPEAKER_02: 12:34

We also find that in the mental health literature, specifically with regard to exercise and nutrition, that when we wrestle with very difficult emotions, when we wrestle with high highs and low lows, the tendency to want to numb those things, to not want to go there, not want to work through those difficult things is very high. And we have lots of pornography as one of those pacifiers that we could turn to instead of wrestling through that process. For my part, I think it's extremely important with regard to stewarding our body that we give ourselves the best chance to wrestle through those emotions as as truthfully and as realistically and connectedly as possible, right? So if I'm actively engaged in consuming foods that are good for me, they're not making the highs any higher than they need to be, they're not making the lows any lower than they need to be. My immune system has all the resources that it needs to help me adapt my my brain, the neuroplasticity of my brain in wrestling with grief. My neurons have all the neurotransmitters they need, and my body has all the resources it needs to make new connections. And then exercise-wise, I'm I'm engaged in in regular healthful pursuit, weight training, cardiovascular exercise that that gives me an opportunity to do something healing and fulfilling and good and productive, even when I'm low or even when I'm high. And in both of those cases, my body equips me to walk through those things in truth without having to numb the feelings to get through it.

SPEAKER_01: 14:10

Yeah. And on some days while going through a crisis or trauma, simply like drinking water and eating is a victory. Simply going for a walk or doing even just a little bit of exercise is huge, even if it doesn't feel like very much. So I want to validate that. And I like how I've heard you say sometimes we work out to work things out. Yes. Isn't that fascinating that that physical activity can have such a profound impact on emotional processing, on mental health, on sexual integrity?

SPEAKER_02: 14:58

It's about the embodying the process, right? So I feel this thing, I think this thing in my mind and heart, but what do I do with it? Where does this thing that doesn't exist yet go? And what way does that manifest itself in the world around me? And and working out's not the only way. You know, maybe you write about it. Maybe you talk it out with somebody you love, maybe you pray about it, right? Maybe there's all kinds of ways that this can physically manifest itself in the world, but working out is working it out. You you can manifest this energy productively, and you might say, okay, well, I'm not really like building anything. Like, no, you're you're building your body. You're taking this energy and making it productive for your cardiovascular system. You're taking this energy and making it productive for your bad knees. You know, you're making you're taking this energy and you're placing it in a space where you're getting to steward it well. Yeah. And uh there's there's this deep, this deep idea that that God's word never returns void. That's something that scripture tells us about God's word. And I wouldn't say that it's as deep as that, but it's been my experience that very rarely is working out the wrong thing to do. Like, what should I do with all this energy? Go work out. It's usually a good call. It usually works out well for you.

SPEAKER_01: 16:16

Hearing you say that gives me even more appreciation for how valuable this is. It puts us in the posture of being creative rather than being a consumer. Being a creator instead of being a consumer, which is what porn wants us to do. Porn puts us in a posture of being passive instead of being proactive, disembodied instead of being embodied. And I can see how how working out is more than just like checking a box, we're actually creating something.

SPEAKER_02: 16:50

Yes. And and in many ways, not only does that show up in our bodies, but it also shows up in our mind. I was coaching a young lady recently who wrestles with depression. And she's actually done a really good job over the last month of staying consistent to her weight training and exercise. If you've ever wrestled with depression, if you're listening, you know that the last thing you want to do is go work out. I already feel like I don't have any energy to live this. You want me to go spend more energy doing this thing? And she said, you know, it's it's interesting. The shame and the guilt that I feel, this is her speaking, the shame and the guilt that I feel about not being motivated to do things. Like I'm in a low, I'm I'm not motivated, I don't like myself for that. It's almost like the voices in my head are telling me I'm no good, right? If I've worked out today, it's like I have something concrete to like show them. It's like, no, I how am I lazy and good for nothing? I literally did like dumbbell rows this morning. Like people who are lazy and good for nothing don't do dumbbell rows. Like, and I'm making that kind of joking, but it but it was real. We were talking about how how it's such a ballwork of positive cognitive dissonance. And that means that I can't believe negative things about myself when I have taken the time to love myself well today and to do it in one of the most difficult ways possible, one of the most uncomfortable ways that you can love yourself well is is is approaching exercise. It was it was a pretty powerful moment for her to tell me that.

SPEAKER_01: 18:27

Beautiful. One concept you discuss is roots and fruits.

SPEAKER_02: 18:33

Toward the end of the devotional, one of the things that that I explore with the reader is this idea that there are fruits in our life that come from the roots of our life. And this is a very scriptural idea. Jesus told us in the Gospel of John that He's the vine and we are the branches, and that if we are rooted in Him, we will bear much fruit. But apart from Him, we can do nothing. In the exercise world, oftentimes people will say things like, I know what to do, I'm just not doing it. Something along those lines. We might say, I crave these foods, I don't want to crave these foods, but I eat them anyway, even though I'm trying to lose fat or I'm trying to battle diabetes or whatever, I don't know why I keep ending up at the bottom of the ice cream carton, right? Something along those lines. In the in the devotional, we explore this idea of bitter roots bringing bitter fruits. And that is to say, if you look at your life, and there are some fruits that you know they're not in keeping with your calling. They're not in keeping with what you know God has made you to do, what you know God is is working in your life, you're looking at their fruit and you're like, that's not good fruit. And if you keep trying to cut off the fruits and throw them over the fence, so to speak, without dealing with The roots. Where do those fruits come from? Those fruits come from the roots. And you can you can try to get rid of the fruits. You can try to get rid of the behaviors like eating ice cream after after dinner, for instance, or not getting up early to work out when you really did want to get up early to work out, but your alarm goes off and you're like, I'm not doing that. I'm not I don't I'm I'm snoozing today. If you keep trying to address the fruit and not deal with the bitter root, then what's going to happen is you're going to find yourself very frustrated, very burnt out. You'll find yourself saying things like, I know what to do, I'm just not doing it. And and then in that particular day in the devotional, I invite readers and I also invite them in prayer through the Holy Spirit to address some of those roots and explore them. Where is this thing coming from? It could be very simple. If you're having trouble getting up in the morning, one of the things that might be a bitter route in your life is you're staying up too late. Very easy. That's a tiny route. That's an easy route. You can say, I commit to going to bed earlier and to wrestle through whatever is required to do that, right? But there also might be some deeper, more difficult roots. And I know you're you're no stranger to this idea. And in fact, with regard to sexual healing, one of the things that that you talk a lot about is digging into where these urges, where where these arousals, where these fantasies come from, and understanding the depth and the primacy of those things before trying to deal with behavior change, right? Because cutting off the fruits does not deal with the roots. And so from an exercise perspective, the same thing can be said about somebody who's not being consistent with their exercise, for instance. For many individuals, when it comes to nutrition and exercise, the bitter roots are things like I'm not worth taking care of. I'm not lovable. I'll never be successful. These core deep lies, but negative beliefs, keeping them from manifesting good fruit in their spiritual walk physically.

SPEAKER_01: 22:09

Yeah. Those examples sound very connected to shame. I also sometimes hear men talk about their relationship with their bodies being connected to safety. For example, survivors of childhood sexual abuse may feel safer sexually if they are overweight and perhaps less likely to be viewed through a sexual lens. That's another example of deeper roots. That's right. And it breaks my heart because it makes sense why you may have protected yourself through intentionally staying out of shape. Or perhaps protected yourself from the fear of the unknown. Of what if my body actually looked different and worked differently? So it's so good to practice curiosity and not just constantly fighting a frustrating battle against ourselves.

SPEAKER_02: 23:22

It deeply matters to me that both men and women have the opportunity to work with the body God gave them and make the most of that rather than having to fight it all the time.

SPEAKER_01: 23:33

Amen.

SPEAKER_02: 23:34

Alex, what is your favorite thing about faithful fitness? My profession and my joy is getting to be one-on-one with an individual in an exercise session where I'm I'm helping them to overcome barriers that they've wrestled with for years and teach them how to be intentional about how to move their body and see what it's capable of and see see that they're made of sterner stuff than they know, and to see that that manifest in an hour. Like to see that that progress happen in an hour. It just makes me so happy. And writing a book is very different. Sitting down to put those things on paper and articulate them well in a way that that captures what God's taught me in my own personal journey in a way that would be impactful to others in their journey. That is not a normal or natural process for me. And so, and so I think my favorite thing about it is that it was a journey for me to do this. And as I've been able to share that with individuals as we're we're publishing the work and and reaching out for endorsements among clients and connections, and also in the preliminary process of our early adopters reading the the work and to hear, like, wow, this really, this really helped me to overcome some things I I didn't understand were a problem or wow, this this really broke through for me. That is so cool. That is so enjoyable to me. Yeah, yeah, it's it's the same feeling as helping somebody do a pull-up for the first time. It's like, yes, yes, that's right. That's that's that's so so that's that's my favorite thing. You know, I I heard something recently, and I don't mean to be long-winded about this, but I think it's so so useful as a Christian in the gospel when when Peter tells Jesus, Jesus says, Hey, hey, who do you guys say that I am? And Jesus says, You're the Christ, you're the one, you're the Messiah. And you know, Jesus is like gold star Peter, because you know, he puts his foot in his mouth later in the in the in the in the chapter. But he says, On this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it. That word prevail there, the the Greek word prevail actually means that hell's on defense and it won't be able to defend against the church. In English, it sounds opposite. Sounds more like, you know, the gates of hell are attacking God's work everywhere, but don't worry, you know, we're gonna win in the end. It's not like that. It's it's no, we're we're taking territory from hell itself every day. That's the church. My prayer for faithful fitness is that spiritually speaking, we have the opportunity to win some territory for the body, for the physical body. I don't know how it feels in your church or how it feels in the circles of Christians that that you are with. For many, it feels like that that space, the territory of the body, the intimacy of sex, the the fitness, the physical health of our ourselves, that that territory has been just kind of like set aside as a place we don't go. And and and my prayer for Faithful Fitness is that helps us take some of that territory back. I want to be on offense to help people reclaim their body and to learn how to steward themselves to grow into that vessel that can be love and to give love at the same time.

SPEAKER_01: 27:04

Amen. That is fantastic. So if you guys want to get a copy of Faithful Fitness or connect with Alex and check out Better Daily, go down to the links in the show notes. Alex, thanks so much for being with us. Yeah, 100% true. Thanks for having me on, brother. You're welcome. Gentlemen, always remember you are God's beloved son. In you, he is well pleased.