Husband Material
So you want to outgrow porn. But how? How do you change your brain, heal your heart, and save your relationship? Welcome to Husband Material with Drew Boa, where we answer all these questions and more! Each episode makes it easier for you to achieve lasting freedom from porn—without fighting an exhausting battle. Porn is a pacifier. This podcast will help you outgrow it and become a sexually mature man of God.
Husband Material
My Addiction To Screens: HMA Manly Monday Example
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In this powerful live demo, John Kilmer guides Drew Boa in parts work focused on Drew's addiction to screens. This episode is an example of Manly Monday, one of the weekly HMA Coaching Calls. Learn more and join HMA this week only at joinHMA.com.
John Kilmer is a Mental Health Life Coach, Occupational Therapist, and Certified Husband Material Coach. He's a grateful follower of Jesus who is passionate about men's inner healing work. Learn more about John at relaxedcaregiver.com.
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- Step 1: Listen to this podcast or watch on YouTube
- Step 2: Join the private Husband Material Community
- Step 3: Take the free mini-course: How To Outgrow Porn
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Thanks for listening!
Introduction to Husband Material
Speaker 1Welcome to the Husband Material podcast , where we help Christian men outgrow porn . Why ? So you can change your brain , heal your heart and save your relationship . My name is Drew Boa and I'm here to show you how let's go . Hey man , thank you so much for watching this demonstration of HMA Manly Monday , led by John Kilmer , where I received coaching from John in the hot seat .
Speaker 1So I was the focus of this coaching call and other men were witnessing what happened as I processed a new area of focus for me , which is my relationship with digital devices . Underneath my unwanted sexual behavior , there was actually a deeper addiction to screens that started when I was a little boy . I have been in denial about that for a few years , and this year I've been starting to make some changes , and this recording that you're about to watch is the next step in my journey towards health and being able to have a healthy relationship . What you're about to witness actually happens every week in HMA . We only open up HMA twice a year and right now the doors are open , so if you would like to learn more , go to join HMAcom and enjoy the episode .
Speaker 2Welcome in to Manly Monday . Today , our hot seat man is Drew Boa , and normally on Manly Monday we like to celebrate masculinity and we talk a little bit at the beginning of Manly Monday about the essence of masculinity . What is it ? What is it , particularly in our society where we have so much confusion around what is true feminine , what is true masculine right , and so what we like to say here on Manly Monday is the essence of masculinity is to push through difficulty and to succeed . You know , it is said that the warrior carries fear on the end of his spear , and that is what makes him so powerful . Like we're aware of the difficulty , we're aware of our weakness and still we move forward , right .
Speaker 2And there's another phrase that was coined , I think , by Leanne Payne , who was a wonderful
Drew's Struggle with Screen Addiction
Speaker 2teacher about inner Christian healing , and she said she talks about masculine and feminine very beautifully and she says no hardened feminist can look at the Chicago skyline and say woman did that . And then she'll say woman didn't do that , man did that . And in a really beautiful way she celebrates how the essence of masculinity is to pierce through difficulty and to create , to build , to speak into somebody's life , for example , and create life . In that we even see that in the sex act to create life , to enter in and create life , to build , even to tear down to make something new . And so we usually spend a few minutes celebrating the masculine triumphs that we have all experienced . So this time we won't be doing that , but we are going to celebrate Drew Boa , and he has agreed to come on to be in the hot seat today for Manly Monday .
Speaker 2And what we do in Manly Monday is we work getting unstuck . What happens a lot in our journey , especially those of us who are traumatized . We get in this place of stuckness because there's parts of ourselves inside that are warring right , and so this work that we do is called pillow work or chair work . We actually work on separating those parts of ourselves out and becoming more unstuck . In the end , the goal is a lot more clarity so we can move forward in our masculine journey be decisive and kind of get a better hit on what our path is forward .
Speaker 2So , drew , how are you feeling right now ?
Speaker 1Vulnerable , overwhelmed , grateful and small .
Speaker 2Thank you . You're vulnerable , overwhelmed , grateful and small is all welcome . It's all welcome . Can I say a prayer , please ? Jesus , thank you , thank you for being here , and it really hits me that you yourself were one time small . Hits me that you yourself were one time small . You also know what it's like to be grateful and to be vulnerable and to be overwhelmed , and you came
The Deeper Impact on Relationships
Speaker 2to this world as a man and experienced our condition in your own body , which is just incredible , and I thank you for that . And I thank you for Drew , and I ask that you would come powerfully into his story today to bring healing , to bring clarity and to help move him forward in a new and masculine way by the end of this hour . Thank you so much for your presence here . Amen , amen . So share with us , drew . Talk to us a little bit .
Speaker 1Underneath my attachment to pornography , there was an even deeper attachment and addiction to screens . It started with my Game Boy and a Windows 98 computer and a Windows 98 computer . It progressed to TV and video games and then finally , with my current device , the smartphone . While the smartphone has been a huge blessing to me and it has been a huge blessing , through me , to others , it has also slowly , subtly , silently , sank its hooks into my heart and I have a very unhealthy relationship with it .
Speaker 2I'm hearing you , yes , and so tell us more about the unhealth . I have an unhealthy relationship with it .
Speaker 1My unhealthy relationship with my phone is most evident at night , when my kids have been screaming and not going to sleep , getting up out of bed again and again . I never really know when they're finally done and when they fight with each other and when they don't go along with what I want . It wears me down . It wears me down and my reserves of patience and kindness are almost gone . In that state , toward the end of the night I feel an intense need to numb , to kill the pain , to somehow cushion the intensity of what I feel , of what I feel . Sometimes I have aggressive thoughts , violent thoughts toward my children , and numbing out on my phone protects them from my own violence . I don't like spending an hour on my phone at night continuing to work or continuing to accomplish tasks , and I see how it helps me survive and it keeps my kids safe . Yeah , it really sabotages my relationship with my wife , because that's some of the only time we have together yeah , oh , my goodness drew .
Speaker 2It's like , have you been a fly on the wall at my house ? I just wanted to say me too , me too , like by the end of our day we are exhausted , both my wife and I . And the getting up out of bed over and over and the fighting , I get it . I'm in the trenches with you . You're not alone .
Speaker 2Two parts of yourself or your relationship with your phone and let's tweak this a little bit to kind of get some more clarity . There's the part where your phone serves you not only through your work but to connect with safe others right , and it also serves you to neuroregulate when you're like over the top , overwhelmed , right am I tracking ? Yes , yeah , yeah , and then there's the part of your phone use that does not serve you and maybe you could speak to that a little bit more the part that does not serve me blurs the line between being at work and being at home .
Speaker 1Yeah , the phone makes it possible for me to work anytime anywhere , so it really feeds a work addiction , a workaholism . It also crowds out any space for connection with my wife . It's competing for my heart and a lot of times it's winning . I like having my phone as a tool and it's a very helpful tool and it's a very poor person , you know , but I'm like treating it as if it's a cherished member of my family . I just want it to be a tool
Chair Work: Confronting the Negative Voice
Speaker 1. I don't want it to be like my secret lover .
Speaker 1Oh my goodness .
Speaker 2Yes , yes , yeah , oh my goodness . Yes , yes , yeah . And my guess is there are a ton of men on this call that can that you're going to for solace , or using it to numb out , or like treating it as a person , like going to it for solace , for example , instead of your flesh and blood . Lovely wife , right yeah .
Speaker 1Yeah , yes , yes .
Speaker 2Yes , and so there's two parts of yourself here , or two aspects regarding this . The part that , like , I must use this , I must use the phone in order to self-regulate , and I also must do that . One last thing on HM and check in with that . One last person before I go to bed , right , last person before I go to bed , right . So not only is it a self-regulator but also a work , you know , an encroachment of work into family life sort of a thing , right ?
Speaker 1In my mind , this is ministry , this is the work of Jesus .
Speaker 2Yes , right , absolutely . And so , of course , I need to be doing this right now , right . And then just speak the other voice briefly . We want to get really clear on the two , and your chair has rollers on it , right ? Yes , because we're going to be shifting into two different positions . Right , because both of these parts are at war within us and neither one of them has been allowed to fully be seen , witnessed , cared for . Right , and to say everything to unburden , to use an IFS term Right . So this is the goal of what we want to work on today , and then , at the end , we'll come to the center , which is kind of a place of healthy self where you're holding both of these but not attaching to an outcome on either side . Right . So speak briefly . We've really heard really clearly from this side of the attachment to the phone . Speak briefly so we get clarity . The side side that says I can't be doing this I love my wife and I'm not acting like it .
Speaker 1Yeah , especially at night , after the kids go to bed or while the kids are continuing to come out of bed . Yes , there is also an aspect of hypocrisy here , where I'm helping men outgrow pornography , and a lot of times that means changing your relationship with digital devices .
Speaker 2Oh , my goodness .
Speaker 1Yeah , setting boundaries on where and when and why I'm using these devices in order to keep myself safe and keep my family from having to experience the negative consequences of addictive behavior .
Speaker 2And so I have been in denial about this for years , because it's not sexualized , right , right .
Speaker 1And so I need to come out of denial and deal with this because it's hurting me . It hasn't been hurting my kids as much , thankfully . I've been doing some work on being more present with them , but after the kids are supposedly asleep , that's when I still need to detach from the phone so I can attach to the person I love the most .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah , I'm hearing you really clearly . Thank you , and thank you for your courage and extraordinary vulnerability coming with this issue . Thanks , john . So which of these voices needs to speak first , and what part of your office would you like that to be in ? And it can be a slight shift . It can be two inches to the right or the left , but it does need to be a bodily movement right .
Speaker 2And if you have another chair , some men actually have another chair . They sit in right , and I love that you're doing this . You're stretching and I'm going to do it too , and all of you other men are welcome to do that , because our nervous systems hate transitions . This is why your children are getting up at night , by the way , and running , running around . Our children do it too . I hate transitions . It's very hard , and so even this like transitioning into like wow , am I actually allowed to fully embody one of these aspects of myself ? And the answer is yes , but a stretch and a breath is great to kind of get our nervous system ready for that . So which side in your environment would you , if you , want , to hold your hands out in ?
Speaker 2front of you for example , which side would you say this dynamic of I must have this phone to survive and I must be using it in the ways I am right now to survive ? Where would that live it ?
Speaker 1would live over here on this side .
Speaker 2On your right , okay . And then the side that says I absolutely cannot keep doing this . It's a detriment to my marriage and probably myself , because I'm not living real life in some ways by escaping to my phone or letting work encroach into it . Right , that lives where , On the other side there , okay . So just hold your hands in front of the screen out in front of you , right and left , and I just want you to close your eyes for a moment and breathe and feel the weight of both of these . Just notice , notice the weight , and which one feels more like it needs a voice right now the left side , the left side .
Speaker 1Okay .
Speaker 2Okay , great , so shift your chair over there . And if you need to , if you're really there , great . But if you need to , you can do some more nervous system work to kind of get there Right . And , by the way , when we do this work , it's very common to go into a blended state where that other side is talking as well and this we'll talk about that if it comes up . But this is your opportunity to fully embody this part of yourself , this aspect of yourself , and to speak everything out that you need to about why this is absolutely necessary and true . Okay , and we will also get into part of your judgments toward the self over on the right . So if you need to just take a moment to really kind of get there , Do you want me to speak from my gut ?
Speaker 1Just whatever flows out .
Speaker 2Everything is welcome . This is , this is your opportunity to allow yourself , possibly in a way you never have before , to express
The Part That Needs the Phone
Speaker 2everything from this part of yourself you idiot , you hypocrite .
Speaker 1You talk about regulating your nervous system without porn , but look , you're doing it with the same device that all your clients use to watch porn . You are no better , you are no different , but you pretend to have so much freedom . Look at what you do every night . You look identical to the guys you're trying to help , just totally zoned out on the phone , and you haven't healed your inner child , who's still totally attached to the screen . You haven't healed your inner child , who's still totally attached to the screen . You're so easily overwhelmed . Your capacity to be present is so low .
Speaker 2What kind of a person does this sort of a thing ?
Speaker 1A liar , someone who's weak ?
Speaker 2A liar , someone who's weak ?
Speaker 1Bad husband , bad father .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah . So these two parts are very at war within yourself . These are judgments that you have toward the self over on the right side of your screen , right , and what is this costing you and your wife ?
Speaker 1It's costing us intimacy emotionally , physically , sexually , spiritually Makes it so that when I do spend time with her in the evening , it's so much harder to connect because I feel like I'm constantly trying not to do what I usually do .
Speaker 2Yeah , and from your wife's perspective , if she were here , what would she say this is costing her ? What would she say this is costing her ? Me , yeah , she's like , where are you drew ? I don't have you . I don't have you . In these precious few moments before we both fall into bed , exhausted I don't have you and speak from this place a little bit about how work , the encroachment of work , is affecting this , you and your marriage .
Speaker 1I'm doing what my dad did . I say I come home at a reasonable hour and I work a reasonable number of hours per week , but then I've got six to 10 shadow hours of work .
Speaker 2Right , always on the clock . Just one more thing to do . Is there anything else ? This place , from this place and this chair , you get to allow yourself to fully embody this place . Really feel it to say anything that needs to be said our time is short .
Speaker 1This pattern is eating up parts of my life that I can't get back yeah , our time is short , no kidding .
Speaker 2Life just like that it's gone . Children just like that they're grown . And this part is eating , eating eating and eating up consuming me . How do you feel with this dynamic ?
Speaker 1As soon as I just said that , I felt a moment of clarity . Tell me more . It was easier to see what is really happening . When I consider the brevity of life yeah , I'm going to die . Yeah , is really happening when I consider the the brevity of life yeah , I'm gonna die .
Speaker 2and yeah , yeah , that gave me some sobriety , like in the sense of sobering me up like so healthy self , a moment of healthy self , clarity , right , which we're going to get to by the end of this call , because the healthy self holds this tension you're feeling right now and the desire that I must have my phone in these other ways right , yeah , because it's serving me well right . So healthy self showed up right there . That's beautiful , that's good .
Speaker 1When I first started out , it was not healthy self .
Speaker 2No , and healthy self is in the center , like kind of where your empty bookshelves are right there in the middle . So we're going to get there right and we're all a blend of these things , but we rarely get the opportunity to separate these aspects of ourself out because life is coming at us so hard , right ? Do you want to say anything about your sense of grief in this place ?
Speaker 1I grieve that years of my life as a kid and as a teenager were consumed by the screen . When I see my kids now , I can't imagine them wasting all the time that I did and I feel grieved that it was my best option . I feel grieved that it was my best option . Yeah , I feel grieved that I chose the best thing I could Right .
Speaker 2Right , I'm sitting with you in that grief , my friend . It has cost you a lot and it continues to cost you a lot .
Speaker 1I guess what I'm saying is I grieve the reasons why this developed . Yeah Right .
Speaker 2Right used to cost you a lot . I guess what I'm saying is I grieve the reasons why this developed yeah , right , right and healthy self actually holds that with great tenderness right , which we'll get to , and you've done a lot of work on this . Like there were valid reasons why you , why you , found solace in screen time , very valid reasons , and so we , in some ways , we can thank that part of your life right for protecting you and for giving you connection , even if it was pseudo connection yes , right yeah , anything left unsaid yeah , there was something right toward the beginning and and it is eluding me I think it may be a part that felt so vulnerable that it's not ready to come out again and we respect that .
Speaker 2It may decide to later on in this call or sometime in the future . Yeah , Good work . So we're about ready to step into fully , fully embody the part of yourself that absolutely must use the screen in the ways you've described and continue your phone use , and why you must do that ? Because it's serving you in a particular way , right ? So what I usually invite men to do is to kind of allow yourself to shake off the energy of the current chair you're in in whatever way you like brushing , shaking , moving . You could even stand up if you need to , and when you're ready you can move over to the right side of your screen .
Speaker 2So close your eyes for a moment and just take a couple of deep breaths in this place . So this is the place where you get to fully and perhaps say things you've never felt you could say . Fully embody this aspect of yourself that absolutely must continue using your phone during family time to regulate after the children are settling into bed , that it must be used in lieu of connecting with your wife and it must be used to continue your work long into the night with HM , right ? So there's nothing you need to hold back from this place . Fully embody this aspect of yourself and speak from this place . Share with us . We're here with you .
Speaker 1This is Little Drew speaking . I have no friends . The screen is my friend , the video games are my friends . When I play Pokemon on my Game Boy , I'm somebody , I have a mission , I'm powerful . Yes , I have a purpose . Right , I'm accomplishing things , mm-hmm . And when I respond to people on husband material , I have that same feeling of holding my Game Boy and being powerful and purposeful and accomplishing things and being on a mission and being someone who I like .
Speaker 2Yes , yes . Which are all good things . I want to speak
Finding Healthy Self and Balance
Speaker 2into that goodness right . All those are good things . They're masculine endeavors . Manly Monday talks about masculine endeavors . We all need a purpose , we all need to feel our power , we all need to have a mission , right ?
Speaker 1And there's another side of it . This is little Drew speaking . I can't get angry , can't get too angry , can't get too sad . I just have to get through this yeah , I can't get angry or sad .
Speaker 2I just have to get through this , and this is the only way no one's there for me right ? No one is there for me , right ?
Speaker 1No one is there for me , and now , when it's late at night , the people who I would call are asleep .
Speaker 2Yeah , so no one's available . Just like when you were young .
Speaker 1No one's available except Gmail , yep and text messaging .
Speaker 2Yep and WhatsApp voice shares they're always available .
Speaker 1That's really nice . It is really nice . And that voice shares they're always available . That's really nice .
Speaker 2It is really nice and that is good . It's a way to authentically connect with others using your device . So how does this dynamic serve you when you're dysregulated ? Like , why do you deserve to be on your phone when your children have been screaming all evening ?
Speaker 1because it takes the edge off of my feelings less jagged yeah , it's like a little shot of vodka .
Speaker 2This is water , by the way really is , it's my version of that ? Yep , absolutely . And why do you need that ? This is where you get to fully speak from this part of yourself , fully embody it , like it with the intensity of why this is absolutely necessary .
Speaker 1I need that because I don't want to be angry .
Speaker 2It's uncomfortable to feel angry . I don don't want to be angry . It's uncomfortable to feel angry .
Speaker 1I don't even want to be sad . I want to be happy when I finally , at the end of the day , yeah , yeah . But the truth is I don't feel those happy feelings . I feel sadness at the lost time and maybe some relief at the end of the day . Truth is , all I have emotionally is scraps . Yeah , it's easier to distract myself and if I don't try to connect with Rebecca then I can't fail .
Speaker 2Right , right . There's a lot of safety in being on our devices , right , we have control and we're not risking real relationship , so therefore , we can't fail . How does it feel to be in this chair and to speak honestly about why this aspect is so necessary ?
Speaker 1Feels vulnerable . Yeah , yeah , it makes sense , I feel anger .
Speaker 2Yes , talk more about that . Speak from that angry place .
Speaker 2You're allowed to be angry I feel angry that this is so difficult every night yeah , but , and again , this is your full , full on opportunity to fully embody this place . So what do you judge about your wife telling you you shouldn't be on your phone from this seat self-drew boa , but this is like from this place , when she had , when she wants you to actually relate , but you absolutely must be on your phone to get these things done for hm , or to just relax , for goodness sake , and she's asking you to be in relationship with her . How do you judge her ?
Speaker 1it feels so wrong to say this . I know it's not true . The thought is that she doesn't understand .
Speaker 2She doesn't understand people who who are trying to get me to get off my device or being unreasonable , and they don't understand how does it feel to unburden that ?
Speaker 1Doesn't feel good .
Speaker 2I hear you . I hear you , and generally speaking , with this chair work as we allow ourselves to fully embody wherever we're at right , it's easy to be blended here , but as we allow ourselves to fully embody , sometimes there's something from one of these sides that really needs to be said .
Speaker 1Okay , it's not the big , angry , violent part of me that's saying she doesn't understand . It's a little boy curled up into a ball Saying she doesn't understand . Really , no one understands . My parents didn't understand . Really , no one understands . My parents didn't understand . I really wanted my parents to join me in the video games or things I was doing on a screen . They never showed any interest .
Speaker 2It's shared reality . Yeah , yeah , a shared joy . I's shared reality . Yeah , a shared joy . I'm so sorry , thanks . What part of you wants to say , if any , and again , you can discard this if it's not congruent with how you're feeling , congruent with how you're feeling , but what part of you wants to say how much you deserve this in light of how dysregulating your children can ?
Speaker 1be . I don't want to frighten them and my intense reactions can be frightening , so anything that dulls my emotional state is helpful .
Speaker 2Right and more into this energy . Why , when you're dysregulated , it's like I have absolutely got to have a break here . Like they have pushed me to my last wire Right . Like I deserve this because I have to have a break from it .
Speaker 1I'm having another flash of healthy self in this moment okay , we're about ready to step there . Go ahead last night , instead of going to my phone and working , I got out a children's Bible called the Book of Belonging . It's really beautiful and I allowed myself to read it and it was so nurturing . Yesterday was Mother's Day and at church I had a moment where I told God I have not allowed you to mother me , and this book of belonging mothered me last night .
Speaker 2Oh , Drew , as soon as this call is over , I'm getting on Amazon and I'm going to order the book of belonging for me and my children . Oh , that sounds good . Yeah , it seems good .
Speaker 1The main message of this children's Bible is you belong , you are beloved and you are delightful .
Speaker 2So good , all messages we needed so strongly as boys filling up as I say that yeah , are you ready to step into the healthy self ?
Speaker 2like you , typically , when these two parts unburden a bit , then suddenly it's like , oh , I'm ready , I'm there . Yeah , so move . Let's do a couple breaths to kind of shed yourself of this absolute must for screen time . I was gonna ask you one more thing in this chair and I think I will like why is it absolutely necessary for you to do the 10 plus ? Did you say five hours , five extra hours of what did you call them Shadow hours ?
Speaker 1Shadow hours of work . And now , hey I , I just remembered what that thought was .
Speaker 2You want to move over to the left .
Speaker 1Okay , I finally got the thought . Yes , we got the thought .
Speaker 2Yes , okay , so you're . You're in what energy now ?
Speaker 1Yes , I got the thought yes , okay , so you're in what energy now ? Yes , this thought was so vulnerable and scary to share that I blocked it out . Yeah , I first came to terms with this screen addiction two months ago and at that time my average screen time per day was about six and a half hours , just on my phone . That's not including the computer . My average screen time per day right now is four and a half hours .
Speaker 2Wow .
Speaker 1And that's just on my phone .
Speaker 2So it's decreased . Yes , congratulations . Tell us more about the vulnerability piece over there that felt so hard to say that .
Speaker 1It puts a number on it .
Speaker 2Yeah , it makes it real .
Speaker 1It makes you realize how I'm not just making this up . And everybody has an addiction to their phone .
Speaker 2No , this is real yeah yeah , absolutely , and it's vulnerable to be real , thank you . So we're going to move into healthy self , but I want to give you the opportunity to say anything else over on the far other side , to talk more from this side . Yes , yes , and , by the way , if we were doing this in person , we would linger here for a couple of hours if we needed to , and really go back and forth to fully unburden each side . That's what's lovely . We're limited in on this particular venue but , yes , keep speaking . So , this side again , for those of you who are listening by audio , could you state this side again ?
Speaker 1This is this side , drew , where this is the side that cradles my phone and calls it my precious , like Gollum . Yes , yes yes , Okay .
Speaker 2what else needs to be said from this place ?
Speaker 1Little Drew likes the book of belonging better than the book .
Speaker 2Yay , that sounds like healthy self .
Speaker 1Actually Reading an adult book feels too much like work .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah , I mean talk about all the recovery books you've read , right , yeah ? Reading a kid's book without real kids in my lap feels nurturing so good , so I don't feel like this is the part of yourself that absolutely must have the phone this is a little drew . Yeah , this is part of your healthy self that can hold the tension of not having the phone in this moment . Right , Because you found something better .
Speaker 1When I was a kid , before the screens really took over my life , I was a voracious reader . Books are always available . Books can take me into another world yeah , books can help me escape , yeah , and they regulate me in a way that feels good and I don't have the ickiness attached to it .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah , yeah . And books like are I don don't know , you hold your phone physically , but there's something about a book , an actual book , where you turn pages and you can smell it and you can feel it and there's actual pictures there that are .
Speaker 1It is so regulating little drew is saying books are my friends yeah . Yeah , books are always available .
Speaker 2So good , so good . So do you want to move into your healthy self in the center and again take a couple of breaths and really embody this ? Allow your body to hold a healthy posture . Hold on , I need to do the shake-off thing . Okay , sure , go ahead , do what you need to Say what you need to Really clean that off .
Speaker 1I am not Little Drew .
Speaker 2Little Drew is a part of me , yeah , and you're not big drew , who feels like you have to hold the world together with hm and therefore work five extra hours . Shadow hours . Oh , you're speaking my language . I do shadow hours myself through y .
Speaker 1Yikes .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah , right , good , thank you for taking that time to do that for yourself . So allow yourself to take some deep breaths from this healthy place , healthy self place , and this is the place where the Spirit of God lives in you , in you , and this is the place where you hold both of these tensions and you do not attach to one strongly as an outcome or the other , but you're able to see them both from a king's throne , if you will , right , yeah ,
Embracing Tension and Final Reflections
Speaker 2and so what do you want to speak to both of these parts of yourself , from this healthy part ?
Speaker 1I love both of these parts of myself .
Speaker 2Yeah , tell me more about why . Why do they both serve you ?
Speaker 1I love little Drew because he wants to make sure that I am cared for . I'm not just pouring myself out all the time . Yes , he wants to make sure that I actually just receive .
Speaker 2Yeah .
Speaker 1I need that .
Speaker 2Yes .
Speaker 1Yes , so good , so good . And this other part of me over here , the inner critic , the concerned part of me , wants me to outgrow what I did as a kid .
Speaker 2Yes , yes , yes , right and wants for you true connection .
Speaker 1Yeah , wow , he wants that too .
Speaker 2Yeah , and from your healthy self , you can hold both of these . And , by the way , the healthy self also is honoring your deep desire to be of service to your Christian brothers in their hour of need , right , and therefore the extra hours that you put in , like your healthy self can hold that that . There's good intent behind that . Yeah , and there's also good intent , which you just spoke to , behind your need to connect .
Speaker 1I like how both sides want something better for me .
Speaker 2Yes , yes , and I just want to say you deserve to find some ways to regulate yourself after your children have been screaming all evening from one dad to another . You deserved that . Thanks , john , and there's ways to find that that will serve your marriage and will serve you well , and I love that you found that book .
Speaker 1The Book of Belonging .
Speaker 2The Book of Belonging .
Speaker 1Thank you , Both sides realize that I've been settling for something less than what I could have .
Speaker 2Right . And to live in the healthy self , by the way , is to live in tension . Many of us from traumatized backgrounds are very black and white in our thinking . It's either or right . But to live in the healthy self is to actually live in tension . Christ himself lived in great tension , like there were expectations from the rulers , the synagogue and the Jewish people that he was not meeting and he was threatened . You know they were threatening him . There were expectations from his own family , from his disciples , and he lived in that tension and he lived well in that tension .
Speaker 1And we can too .
Speaker 2Amen , so good . How does it feel to be in the healthy self and to witness these parts of yourself ?
Speaker 1It feels good and right to live in the tension . One of my college professors always told me to live in the tension , because if you're not living in the tension , you're not living .
Speaker 2That's so annoying and so good , isn't it ?
Speaker 1Yeah , I feel like I have space to hold both sides and that feels really good .
Speaker 2Yeah , and by the way , you look very manly in your healthy self . Thank , you . I feel , that . I see it .
Speaker 1I feel the difference in my face and my posture .
Speaker 2Absolutely Good , powerful work , and you got a lot of affirmations in the chat from men who also were resonating deeply with your work , so I'll send those to you , just so you have them in an email .
Speaker 1Thank you , John and guys . Thank you so much for your affirmations . I haven't been looking at them because I've been focused on the process , but I will read them all later . Yes , Thank you for being here with me .
Speaker 2Thank you , Drew , for your vulnerability and for paving the way for many of us to keep doing this deep work .
Speaker 1Thank you , John . Your healthy self has made a difference for me . Love you , Drew . Love you too . Thank you so much for witnessing this part of my healing process . If you would like to join HMA , we open the doors twice a year , once in January and once in July . Right now , you can learn more at joinhmacom and always remember you are God's beloved son and you he is well pleased .
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