Speaker 1: 0:01

Welcome to the Husband Material podcast, where we help Christian men outgrow porn. Why? So you can change your brain, heal your heart and save your relationship. My name is Drew Boa and I'm here to show you how let's go. Hey man, thank you for listening to part two of my interview with Burke Atkerson, who is a close friend, an amazing man and the founder of Fire Nights. Burke is also an experienced breathwork facilitator and in this episode, you are going to learn what breathwork is, both from a spiritual perspective and a scientific perspective, seeing how valuable it is, and Burke is actually going to lead us in one exercise that anyone can do that can really help us. If you are pursuing freedom from porn and addiction, this is a wonderful episode for you. I'm so excited Burke will actually be joining us in September at the Husband Material Retreat. Enjoy the episode. Welcome back, burke.

Speaker 2: 1:00

Thank you, brother. I'm stoked to get this time with you, brother.

Speaker 1: 1:04

Thanks, burke. It's always great to be with you. I'm so excited about today's topic how breathwork can help men outgrow porn. Why are you passionate about this?

Speaker 2: 1:14

Well, I'll give you a little bit of my story. Breathwork returns me to my body and that is where the presence of God is. I cannot be present to God. I can't know his presence if I can't be present. Step one to returning to the present is returning to the breath. Presence is always embodied. Inevitably, Breath is the best tool we have to get there. That is the whole idea of why breath work matters. My entire spirituality, physical health and emotional health depend on it.

Speaker 2: 1:51

However, my backstory is I do have ADHD and I was diagnosed as an adult just a little over a year ago and I've been doing work for eight years. So my ADHD does not look like that hyperactive kid that's just jumping off the walls, but it did look like a restless little boy that was always fidgeting and my brain was always on hyperdrive. My favorite description of ADHD is a Ferrari with bad brakes a Ferrari with bad brakes. So that was my experience. So, because I was sharp and because I never had trouble with grades, I never got a diagnosis and people didn't even suspect it.

Speaker 2: 2:34

But then there were all these other incongruencies in my life where things didn't line up and I was constantly being criticized and corrected as a boy doing things I didn't know were wrong, or crossing lines I didn't know were there because of my neurodiversity. The other thing is I'm an Enneagram seven. What that means is I'm in the brain triad, the mind triad, and you know how people talk about the biggest distance is the 18 inches between a man's head and a man's heart. Yes, Well, for me it's actually the distance between my head and my body.

Speaker 1: 3:13

And one of the easiest, most efficient ways to connect with your body is through your lungs.

Speaker 2: 3:19

Let me give you a little bit of backstory. So in our last podcast I talked about when shit hit the fan eight years ago and I crossed some lines and we moved back to the States. One of the first things we did is the navigators paid for us to go do a two-week intensive with Michael Cusick, which is like 10 grand. He's one of the best in the world on this topic. We did a two-week intensive, me and my wife together, and at the end of it, the last day, he gave me two hours of feedback everything that's wrong in my life that needs to be fixed and then he gave our marriage two hours of feedback and from this feedback we were able to map out the rest of our healing journey that we're going to focus on over the next few years. So he really just gave us a map in that feedback. And then he said Burke, let me tell you one thing. Record this separately. He said forget everything I've said to you about all the stuff that you need to work on and all the stuff that your marriage needs to work on. He said let me tell you one thing and I'll just simplify it for you. He said if you learn to be a man who's okay with silence and stillness and returning to his breath. You will be a different man in just a year from now. So I made that the core of my work moving forward, my inner world work. So, as we talked about in the last podcast, I found a lot of healing and relationship with other men from fire nights and similar stuff. I found a lot of healing and trauma work and talk therapy and shame work was fundamental, but this deep work is really spiritual formation stuff. One of the other things he told me is he's like Burke, you're a navigator, you have half the Bible memorized. He's like you know it better than almost anyone I know and what you need now is to experience what it says in scripture instead of learning it. And he challenged me to put down my Bible for a year and just experience it instead, and so I made it all my work. So, instead of doing quiet times with a Bible and a journal in front of me, I did quiet times with my breath and with the father in front of me, and so I went on a journey.

Speaker 2: 5:43

After that year I was like I'm going to my first thing back in scripture. I'm going to do a word study. I'm going to find out what does scripture say about breath. I started diving into it and guess how many times breath is mentioned throughout scripture. A lot, take a guess. Take a stab at it 75. Okay, that's really good. It shows up 365 verses in the Old Testament and then 365 verses in the New Testament. It totals because some verses say it a little bit more than once it totals to about 380 in the Old and 380 in the New, so almost 800 times. But what about all the verses you have memorized around it? Like you've studied scripture, where's breath coming up?

Speaker 2: 6:32

The problem is there's a translation issue, and I learned another language, so I know we can't translate word for word. We have to take thoughts, we have to take concepts and put them in the other language. However, king James Version the initial translation chose to translate this word to spirit, when really it was breath, a lot of times throughout scripture. The other thing that's interesting and that's Hebrew, aramaic and Greek. So for 4,500 years they didn't have a separate concept for the word breath, and so there's a play on words happening in their language. There's a congruence that we don't see. When we hear the word spirit, we think of this ethereal thing.

Speaker 1: 7:21

We think disembodied, we think that's something other than physical, whereas for them, when they hear, be filled with the Spirit hovered across the waters, it's literally the exhale of God went across the waters, gives me chills.

Speaker 2: 7:53

You almost think of a sigh, like he's looking and it's without form and it's void and he's like yeah, I don't know, but that's the word picture. And then over and over throughout scripture yeah, I don't know, but that's the word picture. And then over and over throughout scripture. So then he breathes his breath of life into Adam and then into Eve, breathes life into them. That's what was different between us and everything else he created. He didn't breathe life into light, but he breathed it into us.

Speaker 2: 8:24

The word in New Testament is interesting for spirit. Every time it mentions the word spirit, it's talking about breath also. At the same time, it's talking about not one or the other, but both. And that includes mindset, that includes posture or attitude, it includes unclean spirits and clean spirits and includes the Holy Spirit. And it's not capitalized in the Old Testament. It just says the Spirit of God, just the breath of God. But it's the word pneuma, which is where we get words like pneumonia, the lungs.

Speaker 2: 8:59

So in both cases, hebrew and Greek spirituality was always embodied. That's profound. Most of the time you can't see breath unless it's cold enough outside. So there is this ethereal element to it, but it's also this thing that we absolutely need to thrive and to survive and to live in this world. We can't live without oxygen. What if that is the metaphor? We can't even be alive without the spirit. Like they are so deeply interconnected the two, and it is spirit and body.

Speaker 2: 9:37

When Jesus was resurrected, where was his body? It was on him, and Dallas Willard pointed this out to us dumb evangelicals. We thought the soul does not include the flesh. Surely that's evil, surely that's part of this fallen world. But the body is part of the soul. Body and spirit were always combined. Our spirituality is fully embodied. So, anyways, this, this whole word study, just changed my life. That's where the light just turned on and I'm like, oh, it's not this secular, eastern new world thing of paying attention, it's this thing that we see all throughout scripture of our spirituality and all those verses that say be alert, pay attention, wake up. All of that has to do with embodiment, being conscious, being present, being alive.

Speaker 1: 10:30

So learning how to breathe and relearning breath is deeply Christian, it's deeply scriptural. What is breathwork? All about.

Speaker 2: 10:42

Oh my gosh. So breathwork is about presence and awareness. One of those verses, proverbs 20, verse 27,. Do you know it? So the human breath is the lamp that the Lord uses to show us the depths of our heart. And that's I slightly paraphrased the second half of that it's what God uses to help us come into awareness of what's going on in our inner world. God uses to help us come into awareness of what's going on in our inner world. So breath and breathwork is about returning to the present. It's about returning to the body.

Speaker 1: 11:14

Now, when we say breathwork, there are some different approaches out there.

Speaker 2: 11:26

So what would you describe as your approach? Great question Breathwork. Is this really abstract idea? And there actually are like dozens of kind of breathworks and there's even these old practices that go back over 1000 years and, luckily, scientists have been paying attention to it. So we have more and more and more research coming out showing the effects of different kinds of breathwork. But for me, when I say breath work, I mean just paying attention to the breath. So I engage in breath work, probably dozens, if not close to 100 times a day. I have a certain kind of breath work, a breath that I do, called the physiological sigh. I do it maybe 15 times a day, so it's something that I'm constantly engaging in, and also with breath being connected with our spirituality.

Speaker 2: 12:16

There's a lot that Catholics and early Christians understood about prayer that we don't understand, and so they were okay with silence being a form of prayer. They're okay with stillness being a form of prayer, whereas us evangelicals we want to produce something, especially Western and American and modern. If we're not saying something and speaking it, then it's not prayer. And then saying in Jesus' name, amen, well then we're not praying, right. So we have all these structures put around it, but then we see in scripture these phrases like pray, always pray, without ceasing. Part of me, returning to my breath and doing some breath work throughout the day, is a sort of returning to my spirit, returning to my father like the prodigal son. And so I've got these anxieties and then I return my attention to the breath and my eyes to the father and it ends up being this deep, rich spirituality that's connected and present. That's so much more than just breathing and paying attention to my breath. But when I say breath work, it's that simple just paying attention to what's happening right here.

Speaker 1: 13:27

We've talked about the spiritual significance of that. How does it work in terms of brain science?

Speaker 2: 13:33

The biggest thing is it alters our autonomic nervous system state. So when you feel anxiety, dysregulation, when you feel anger in your body, when you feel tension, stress let's say you get in a conflict with a coworker or you have to tell somebody no, and maybe that triggers you and you're just like shaking.

Speaker 2: 13:58

Or sexual arousal. Sexual arousal is very dysregulating sometimes, and a lot of us, a lot of our sexuality, has been very disassociated, mind separate from the body, and what that is? It's a dysregulated state of the nervous system, and so breath is the most powerful tool we have as humans to re-regulate the nervous system. Part of it is our brain, but it has to be embodied. So you could ask questions, and I'll do this with clients. If they get dysregulated, I'll ask them like, hey, look around the room, find five things that are blue, find four things that are red, like that's distracting their mind and helping them return and helping them regulate a little bit. But if I could get them in their body and say, hey, try this form of breath with me. If I could get them in their body and say, hey, try this form of breath with me, it's so quick, it's so fast, and it'll help them get down to an even more regulated state rather than it's not like you're dysregulated, you're regulated, it's a whole continuum.

Speaker 2: 15:00

So on my stress scale that I use personally, so zero to 10, 10 is a panic attack. Zero is laying on a hammock on vacation with a margarita in my hand, fully at rest is zero If I'm at a five or higher, I'm already in a dysregulated state. I check in on this multiple times a day. If I'm at a seven or eight, I want to do whatever it takes to drop my stress level down to a four below a five. Takes to drop my stress level down to a four below a five, and my goal is really to get to zero once a day.

Speaker 2: 15:34

Really, we thrive at zero. We're designed to live at zero and I don't mean on vacation, but I do mean stress-free and so we have to have some stress in our life to get things done. Cortisol is the system that, or the neurotransmitter that's activated in our system when we experience stress. Cortisol wakes us up in the morning. Cortisol helps our eyes focus on when we're reading or moving from one object to another. Cortisol is used in several different systems in our body, but when there's too much cortisol in our system, that's where we start to go up that scale of dysregulation and it's poison. Too much is poison. So when I was burned out, it all came from me being at about a seven on average for years and accumulated in my system to burnout and failure to make quality decisions.

Speaker 1: 16:28

And failure to make quality decisions and Burke, even before we recorded these episodes. Today, you took me through a breathwork exercise and it was so regulating. And it was not only the breathing but combining that with awareness of the presence of God.

Speaker 2: 16:48

The Lord is here. We love to use that phrase, that this is God's temple. When we're trying to shame somebody or body shame them, you're overeating, or you're like how dare you masturbate? That's God's temple. And I'm not saying that's how we engage in that conversation, but that's how we've experienced that topic a lot. But what if this is just a place God loves to be? What if he loves to dwell inside of your body, drew? What if he just delights in being so present with you that he feels your heartbeat, that he could tell when your hands are shaky, that when you're taking a hot shower, he could feel the drips of water dripping down your skin? He's that present to you. And so when we learn to be present to us, we learn to be present to him like he's present to us.

Speaker 1: 17:49

Amen, hallelujah. That is so good. So what a valuable practice for us, really for any person yet, especially for men who want more freedom from pornography. How can breathwork help?

Speaker 2: 18:12

Another thing the breath does, or returning to the breath and even shifting the way we're breathing. One of the things it does is it soothes us, it comforts us physiologically from the brain down. It's called metacognition. When we're paying attention to what we're thinking about and we're paying attention to what we're experiencing, that part of our prefrontal cortex begins to secrete something from neurotransmitters called serotonin that helps soothe the body. Starting from here, helping us soothe and regulate so that's part of the regulation process is a prefrontal cortex, you know, lighting back up the way it's supposed to Cause. When we get dysregulated with with things, parts of the prefrontal cortex don't work very well anymore and we rely on the rest of the brain, which is 80% of the brain, is subconscious and limbic system and all the other called the hypnotic states. All of those things are happening at the subconscious of the brain and so when we're paying attention to our breath, breathing happens from the subconscious. You don't have to tell yourself to think from the prefrontal cortex, it's happening back here. So when we step into breathing and paying attention to our breath, all of a sudden we're stepping into the subconscious world, we're stepping into the rest of what's going on in our mind and what I would more describe as our heart, or overeating, or ice cream, or sex or orgasm.

Speaker 2: 19:51

Most of the time, what we're longing for physiologically is comfort. This uncomfortable thing happened, and so I want to find comfort, and you could even think about sexual trauma triggers. You might get triggered by something, and that's so uncomfortable and unsafe. The limbic system has two questions Am I loved? Am I safe? The prefrontal cortex is asking can I learn, can I solve problems? But the whole subconscious side is am I safe? When we feel discomfort, we don't feel safe anymore.

Speaker 2: 20:28

So safety and comfort are deeply related in the brain. So when we want to return to the present and we pay attention to our body, what we're doing is we're lowering our stress levels by literally physiologically comforting ourselves, and so one of the amazing things about that is when you're present, you can experience pain better. We are escape artists as addicts, so we want to run from our pain, and instead of running to presence, we want to run from the presence, because that's where pain is at, and so we go to addiction. We go to these things that comfort us. But what's fascinating is, if we really ran to presence, then we could learn how to face pain head on and the pain is less painful. So then we talk about things like resilience and grit. All these things are coming from breath.

Speaker 1: 21:23

Man, that is so true. I wish that wasn't true, because I have a part of me that just wants to escape. Yes, but you're right, when we face what we're actually feeling, it's not as intense as we are afraid it might be.

Speaker 2: 21:42

Yeah, can I give an illustration of that Please? There was this girl who started texting me these inappropriate things and it instantly, like that was part of my arousal template, that was part of my like. I just went into a head spin a few years ago and I could not think straight. I called up friends. I was like, hey, man, help me regulate. I'm dysregulated and it's been you know, four hours. I just can't think straight, I can't put my head on straight. I want to respond to this girl and, just like you know, x, y, z, go down that rabbit trail. And so I I told my wife I was like, hey, I'm not in a good place, I just need to go camping for 24 hours. I just need to get out of town, turn my phone off and connect with my body and connect with the father.

Speaker 2: 22:29

So I went camping an hour away but the whole 24 hours I was out there. It was windy, like not a little bit of wind, like if it was raining it would be raining sideways, like it was strong, harsh, cold wind that makes your skin tickle because they're like tingle, because it's so piercing, and I was so pissed. So the next day I thought, surely when I wake up, it'll be gone. When I was trying to set up my shelter, I pulled out my 12 foot tarp and it was fully horizontal from the wind while I'm trying to set it up. It was such a pain in the ass. The next day I built a little fire and sat by it trying to stay warm. I lit a little cigar, I have my journal out, I'm trying to sit with father and I'm so angry, I'm venting with him, I'm like God, I'm so dysregulated and I just want to be present with you and I just want to be present in my body and I can't because that stupid wind. I decided, okay, I'm just going to do a 20 minute mindfulness sit and just pay attention to my breath and just return to my body. Actually, it was a centering prayer that I was just returning to the presence of the father. You know a thousand times over those 20 minutes.

Speaker 2: 23:37

One of the things that happens with mindfulness is radical acceptance for ourselves, and so we encountered these things in our body and we're just like, okay, it's okay, I'm not going to judge that, I'm just going to accept it as it is and as I did, that this mindfulness sit is fully embodied, fully spiritual and fully physical, fully mental.

Speaker 2: 23:59

It's engaging all the spaces except relational, which thank God nobody was there, because then I wouldn't be able to go there. Probably the wind bugged me through half of that sit and it was so distracting and I was angry and part of the thing I was acknowledging is just how cold it was on my face and the sun was barely shining. And right after that mindfulness sit, the wind continued and actually the wind continued the rest of the time I was there, but it didn't bug me anymore. I was able to embrace it and accept it as it is. I was able to be present to that pain and no longer was it a burden in my life to carry or avoid, because I'd embraced it, I'd accepted it, I was present to it. What if we could encounter all of our pains and struggles in life like that?

Speaker 1: 24:53

What if we could encounter our sexual temptations like that?

Speaker 2: 24:56

Just kind of accept them and dig deeper, say man, I get really curious. I wonder what's below that. Yeah, exactly, instead of oh, I shouldn't do that, I should look away. I wonder what's deeper than that.

Speaker 1: 25:09

Breathwork is a way that we can befriend what's happening instead of battling what's happening.

Speaker 2: 25:18

Oh, beautiful, beautifully said. You know just a brief thought about that. Our sexuality is fully embodied and we want to call it flesh and fully disown it. Right, like we pray to God, just like take my sexuality because I can't stop looking at porn. You know how many times did you pray that as a teenage boy? Like just take this away from me, god, I'm so angry at it. It causes so much misery and shame, makes me feel weak. Rem me, god. I'm so angry at it. It causes so much misery and shame, makes me feel weak, makes me, reminds me that I'm not good enough.

Speaker 2: 25:46

The thing is, our sexuality is so good and it's a gift from God and it's a deeply embodied experience, and so the more we could learn how to be present by returning to the breath, the better and the richer our sexuality is. By returning to the breath, the better and the richer our sexuality is. So, all of a sudden, we may be engaging with our wife in a way that's not detached and sexualized and objectified, and what's that word? Disassociated? It's present and connected and beautiful. That is when sex gets good, not when you learn some technique.

Speaker 1: 26:22

Amen. And sometimes I find it helpful to breathe different ways, For example, to breathe more fully and quickly and deeply versus the long, slow, deep belly breathing. Earlier you were walking me through multiple different kinds of breaths.

Speaker 2: 26:41

There are so many different ways of breathing and the most important thing is just paying attention, as we said. But what's really interesting is that breathing can be a mirror of the soul or what's happening at a deeper level. So if you really start over years paying attention to your breath, you'll realize that in every situation where you feel a different way, you're actually breathing a different way. I have a friend who's a phenomenal actor from Australia and he's done these movies with Antonio Banderas and all these big names, and last time I was in LA I was hanging out with him and he said man, some of the most incredible acting or the way I've been getting so much better as an actor lately, is realizing that the character is found in the breath. So even like his ability to tap into the emotional state of another character is determined by breath, and that's true of ourselves too.

Speaker 2: 27:38

So Navy SEALs do it to regulate themselves and Marines in a negotiation situation where things are intense, they can stay in a regulated state because they know what regulated feels like and they've done the work practicing that and then, when things get really intense and stressful, they could return to that regulated state through their breath. On the other hand. Let's say somebody is a really good preacher, which I'm not. I don't like public speaking, but they can begin to pay attention to how their favorite speakers breathe when they take breaths in. I have some friends who are singers that they take the same approach, Like oh, if I want to sing that style, then that's the way I have to breathe, when it's held in the body, how deep, how shallow, if it's chest, if it's belly, if it's your back, if it's you know, if you're kind of just breathing in your mouth.

Speaker 1: 28:33

So there's a whole world to explore within breathwork for our purposes. Burke, would you be willing to lead us in a breathwork exercise?

Speaker 2: 28:44

Absolutely. Right now I'm not going to do a Wim Hof style approach. It will drop your anxiety level and stress level significantly more than any other tool we have in our belt as breathwork instructors. It's very intense and it'll bring you, let's say, you're at a six. It'll bring you down to a zero or one within 10 minutes. It's that powerful. I'm not going to do that right now. I'll teach you guys that during the sessions over the retreat.

Speaker 2: 29:13

What I'll teach you right now is something I use multiple times a day. It's called the physiological sigh. Have you heard of that? Only from you? The physiological sigh has a lot of research around it and it will within one minute.

Speaker 2: 29:26

Let's say my stress levels at a six. Within one minute of breathing like this, it'll bring me down to a five and all of a sudden, like everything's starting a fire and all cylinders, again I'm able to think clearly in one minute. So if I go on a walk, let's say I'm at a six, I could go on a walk. It might take 20 minutes to drop me down to a five right, and going on a walk is a phenomenal form of stress reduction. This will get you there in one or two breaths. It'll drop you down. So what it is, you max out your lungs with oxygen and then you're going to take a sharp inhale. So you're going to max out your lungs and then you're just going to like, pop out those remaining little like spaces in your lungs which, by the way, do you know how much like if you were able to spread out your lungs? You know how much surface area there is. No Tennis court.

Speaker 1: 30:23

Really.

Speaker 2: 30:24

So if you breathe all the way in, you're maxing out probably like 90 to 95% of your intake capacity, and then you go and you just do a sharp intake and you're just popping out those extra little areas that you never use. So with this method you're just going to breathe in real deep and then do a sharp intake to max it out, and then you can hold your breath for about four seconds if you want, or you could instantly start breathing out. But the key is long exhales. So you can always slow your rate by doing long exhales. Your heart rate. You could slow your breathing. By long exhales you could lower your anxiety level.

Speaker 1: 31:07

And when you say a long exhale, you mean pursing my lips so that I'm breathing out like I'm breathing through a straw.

Speaker 2: 31:14

That is a great way to do it, but it's not the only. It doesn't matter how you breathe out, but if you have a little restriction right here with your mouth, you're going to be able to drag out the breath longer than. If you do this and you're like breathing out hot air or like from the back of your throat, there's no restriction, and so breathing out through a straw it creates a little restriction so you could slow your breath even more. It also gives you something to pay attention to and somewhere to focus your attention. But anytime you have a long inhale instead of an exhale, it's going to be raising your heart rate. Anytime you do a long exhale, it's going to be lowering your heart rate. So you're literally changing your physiology, you're changing your state of your nervous system by how you breathe. So this one is like max it out and then just one more, and then you go real slow and you get all the air out completely. So you should feel your stomach and your chest fill up and then, when you're exhaling, you should feel your shoulders drop. So you're squeezing out every last bit of oxygen that's in your lungs and just from one of those you'll drop and do another one, you'll drop your stress even more. Do it like a whole two minutes and all of a sudden you're just going to be present, awake, not stressed, and there's so much research behind this.

Speaker 2: 32:48

There's not a more effective tool for quick relief, and it is soothing. So if you're super stimulated and dysregulated from the trigger, just do some breaths. So and then, of course, call a friend. But it may be hard to call a friend if you're still dysregulated. So get regulated, pick up the phone. Beautiful. What if I just walk the audience through it right now, drew? That would be awesome.

Speaker 2: 33:15

So it's so simple, wim Hof, breath work and there's certain kinds of breath work that you have to be on a yoga pad, you have to be laying down, you have to be in a safe place. Physiological side is something you could do anywhere. If you're driving right now, if you're in traffic listening to this, you know if you're dysregulated, it doesn't matter where you're at right now. It helps if you're not doing physical activity like that. But you can do it when you're doing physical activity let's say you're on a walk go ahead and stop and take a deep breath, just kind of pay attention to how it feels in your body. So you're paying, you're bringing your attention back to your breath. If you're in a place where you can close your eyes, if you're driving, don't close your eyes. If you're in a place where that's safe, go ahead and close your eyes. If you're in a place where that's safe, go ahead and close your eyes. And we're just going to do this for one minute. So breathe out all the air. Now you're ready, take a deep inhale, full lungs, and then peak your lungs and then slowly exhale, make sure all that air is out and then all the way back in again. Big deep breath and then sharp inhale and lastly, slow exhale all the way and then get all the air out of your lungs, let your shoulders drop, feel your head drop, wiggle your head a little bit if you want, if that's safe, and return your attention to your breath again. You don't have to change your breath now. Just breathe normally. Just breathe normally. You know, it always helps to breathe in through your nose and breathe out through your mouth, but it really doesn't matter how you breathe. What matters is that you're paying attention. You know what's crazy about this one, drew. Kids and babies do it when they're crying and they're regulating their systems from when they, you know, after they stop crying, they're like all of a sudden they're like that's it. You remember that? That's the physiological side. It's so deeply ingrained in our body we're going and then that peak, we're reminding our bodies of what it's like to calm down from crying. Returning to the present, it feels so good, it's soothing. We don't get the same cocktails of hormones as orgasm, so it's not as addicting and it's tempting to go get that whole cocktail right, but it is soothing neurologically and physiologically.

Speaker 2: 36:15

You'll notice I'm smoking a cigar. If you're on the podcast, I don't know if you noticed, but I'm not telling you to smoke a cigar, and I'm not a proponent in the sense of like, I'm not an advocate. I like them for the flavors and the sensory experience, and it brings me back into my body. The nicotine stimulates my mind with ADHD better than medications do. However, it's one of those things that brings me back into my breath and it slows things down.

Speaker 2: 36:43

You take about one puff a minute, and what I'll do a lot of times, I'll just show you. I'll put smoke in my mouth. Don't do this because you don't smoke, drew, but it is interesting because it's still a form of returning to the breath. I'll put smoke in my mouth. Don't do this because you don't smoke Drew, but it is interesting because it's still a form of returning to the breath. I'll put smoke in my mouth and then I'll breathe out my nose, because you're not putting smoke in your lungs with a cigar. You never want to do that. That's so bad. It's so bad for your health.

Speaker 2: 37:07

But I'll breathe in. I'll fill up my mouth with smoke. I'll breathe out all the air from my nose and then I'll slowly. I'm holding my breath, I'm slowly letting the smoke out of my mouth and it ends up taking like over a minute to do that whole process. And it's one of those things that's like I call it, breath work of the cigar and it is so calming. You'll notice the last podcast podcast I had more anxiety in my body and I was speaking quicker. I couldn't think as straight and now I've slowed down and the cigar has been a tool to help me slow down again. I don't I'm not pushing cigars, I'm just saying how I've used them absolutely this stuff is so cool.

Speaker 1: 37:52

I'm really excited for the beauty of breathwork and also being able to do it in person at the Husband Material Retreat in September. Among the different breakout sessions, one of them will be about breathwork and Burke. You mentioned Wim Hof and he's famous for combining breathwork and cold exposure. How do those two things go together?

Speaker 2: 38:16

Great question and I want to add to that question for you. This is kind of how I'll answer it. How do they help with sex addiction or porn addiction or compulsion, whatever word you want to use. Breath is about presence, right, as we talked about, cold is about presence during discomfort. The way we experience cold physiologically is the same way we experience stress.

Speaker 2: 38:44

Well, there's several benefits. So, first of all, when you're working away from addiction and you're working on sobriety and working towards wholeness, and you're working on sobriety and working towards wholeness, there's certain things you could do that will maximize neuroplasticity and it'll accelerate your rate of change where you're creating new neural pathways. One of them is cold exposure. So another one is exercise. If you're working on sobriety, go exercise. Another one is drinking a lot of water. If you're working on sobriety, trying to get some traction, drinking a lot of water. If you're working on sobriety, trying to get some traction, set a goal of 60 days to drink a gallon of water a day. And this is part of the program I have it's called the Wolfpack Method, where you're using all these things to accelerate change in neuroplasticity and you're stimulating neuroplasticity so change happens faster. So you're letting the old neural pathways that you've taken a thousand times to kind of cover up and you're creating new neural pathways, and this just accelerates the whole process. Cold exposure is one of those.

Speaker 2: 39:45

The other thing is it's teaching us discipline, and I'm the least consistent person you've ever met in your life, like my motto is consistently inconsistent. So when I say discipline, I don't mean consistency. What I mean is a posture of discipline, like what I think scripture talks about discipline be strong and courageous. Well, how's that apply? Well, when we experience pains and discomforts, our tendency is escapism, our tendency is dysregulation or disassociation or addiction, and all of this is not embodied, all of this is not present and all of it is a running away from pain. Discipline is a posture where we're able to face pain, like when I did the 20 minutes mindfulness sit and embraced the wind, the cold wind. It didn't affect me anymore. It's because I faced it instead of facing away from it. So discipline changes our whole experience of pain and suffering and therefore, since we're able to embrace it and it's not as painful and we're being soothed in the process, we don't have to run from it anymore. So much of addiction is running from it Now we can face it.

Speaker 2: 40:59

I would recommend, for 21 days, to take cold showers. So you're aiming for sobriety, but the other thing you're going to do is you can take a hot shower and then turn it cold for 30 seconds and then the next week turn it cold for a minute and third week turn it cold for a minute and third week turn it cold for a minute and a half. If, if you really want to have fun, like do a nice bath, but you it's not gonna be realistic to do a nice bath every day. They say 11 minutes a week is your maximum benefits and you don't want to hurt yourself. Don't force yourself to do something more extreme if you're uncomfortable too much. Like don't hurt yourself, please. However, cold exposure does speed up neuroplasticity and it teaches us to face pain.

Speaker 1: 41:43

And breathwork is a huge part of being able to tolerate it.

Speaker 2: 41:46

This morning I did a 10-minute breathwork session and then I got in the bath for four minutes in the cold bath and it was only like 48 degrees. But after 20 seconds it didn't even feel cold anymore. I was fully relaxed back, like I was sitting in a hot tub because I was pairing it with my breathing. But if you don't pair it with breathing then, yeah, it's going to be a lot more painful. A lot of people the moment they expect you get in the cold. What do you do? You hold your breath, you panic, your whole body tenses up. But if you could do some deep breaths, you're able to stay present to it and it doesn't hurt as much. And then you're rewiring your brain to be able to face discomfort in life.

Speaker 1: 42:37

Brilliant, so I'm excited about the session where we are going to teach you all how to do breath work, as well as the option of pairing it with cold exposure for those who are so inclined. Burke, thank you so much for sharing your wisdom and experience with us.

Speaker 2: 42:56

Man. I appreciate you so much, Drew, Thank you. Thanks for this.

Speaker 1: 42:59

You're welcome. So, guys, if you want to learn more about Burke and connect with him, go down to the links in the show notes, and if you'd like to join us at the Husband Material Retreat to do some breath work in September, we would love to have you there. You can check that out at husbandmaterialcom slash retreat. It's so beautiful. May we all breathe and always remember you are God's beloved son and you, he is well pleased.