Speaker 1: 0:01

Welcome to the Husband Material podcast, where we help Christian men outgrow porn. Why? So you can change your brain, heal your heart and save your relationship. My name is Drew Boa and I'm here to show you how let's go. I am so excited that Dr Eddie Caparucci is back on the show, because it's been too long.

Speaker 2: 0:27

It's been way long. I mean, it's like you have me locked away in a closet somewhere. I've wondered when are you going to let me out so I can come and talk? But then I thought, well, you're going to hear me talk and that guy never shuts up, so let's put him back in a closet. But anyway, drew, it's great to be back with you. I always enjoy that. We have a great time together. For those of you who don't know, drew and I we're good friends. We communicate quite a bit, so this is rather natural for us.

Speaker 1: 0:54

Yeah, this is going to be great. I mean, you've written multiple books lately, we've presented at a few different conferences and we have a new one coming up called the Emotional Connection Workshop, which is so exciting, and we're going to tell you more about that. And today you are going to hear about some of the most common barriers to emotional connection that men face. Eddie, why are you passionate about this?

Speaker 2: 1:24

connection that men face. Eddie, why are you passionate about this? Well, because you know, I came to realize a long time ago, drew, when I started all of this, that what we went the man who was struggling with sobriety, that being sober just isn't enough. And the other thing I recognized in my research was the fact that many men are emotionally, was the fact that many men are emotionally underdeveloped, and that is a factor in what goes on in the development of a porn addiction or sexual addiction.

Speaker 2: 1:54

So there's many different components. It also has a major impact on a relationship even before infidelity is discovered, and therefore it makes it even more difficult to heal because of it. So there's a lot of education that men need, there's a lot of training that they need and, as I said, for years this has not really been something that had been, you know, put out there where people can really understand the why. How did I get in this place, how come I can't bond with people, how come I don't know how to be empathetic? So hopefully, those are the things we'll talk about today.

Speaker 1: 2:37

So many guys are getting more freedom. They're gaining sobriety. It's been a long time since they've sexually acted out, but their relationships are in shambles and they're still feeling like I'm spinning in circles trying to rebuild trust.

Speaker 2: 3:02

He goes into this protective mode, he wants to protect himself from the onslaught that's coming at him as opposed to no. Let me look outward and find her pain point and focus on that. But again, what's at the heart of all of it is fear. We're like terrified little boys.

Speaker 1: 3:29

And that's why we focus on the inner child. So much, Eddie, if you had to simplify your understanding. Why do men struggle to emotionally connect?

Speaker 2: 3:41

Basically because, as we were growing up, we were not given the tools that we needed from our parents. We weren't taught how to identify what our real emotions are, we weren't given the words to do that. We weren't taught how to emotionally regulate, how to be attuned to others, to be empathetic but, most important, drew, we weren't taught how to sit with emotional discomfort. We weren't taught how to sit with that pain, no matter what it would have been. It could have been border, but we weren't taught what to do with them. So we had to come up with our own coping strategy, which basically came along the lines of I won't think about it and then we'll find something to distract ourselves from the pain itself. And therefore we carry that into our world. And if you don't learn how to sit in pain, don't grow. Don't grow emotionally, you can't grow as a couple.

Speaker 2: 4:49

The other aspect of it is when we don't get that emotional connection with our parents, we don't learn how to bond. We bond very shallow, where, as opposed to, this, is the way a bond is and that bonding which is really discussed in detail when it comes to attachment theory. A different attachment style is a major component in all of this Without having a strong ability to bond. This thing comes apart pretty quick. In the book I wrote why Men Struggle for Love. I used the word oblivious probably a dozen times, because we are, we're oblivious to all of this. Once we get the knowledge, once we understand why, we are then empowered to make substantial changes so that we can grow and mature to be the men we were designed to be Amen.

Speaker 1: 5:48

And this is not just happening in marriage or romantic relationships. This is happening in all relationships with friends at work, with kids. Our attachment styles and our lack of emotional connection is affecting every person.

Speaker 2: 6:07

we are trying to get close to right and you could say you know, I think I know I have friends. I have friends at work and I have friends in the neighborhood. I said, yeah, you do a bunch of stuff with them, right, yeah, yeah, we hang out, yeah, yeah. What was the last time you sat down and had a really deep, sensitive conversation? What? Were you ever vulnerable with them? Were they vulnerable with you and you didn't want to try to fix their problem? It probably didn't happen. It probably doesn't happen.

Speaker 1: 6:37

So, even though you might be surrounded by people, it is so common for us to feel disconnected from ourselves and each other. In this workshop, we are going to help you overcome the barriers to emotional connection, which are ultimately coping strategies, ways that we learned to deal with emotional distress.

Speaker 2: 7:02

That's a great point, drew, it is. And when men start to recognize that and they start to look at it and say, oh, wait a second, if somebody comes to me with a problem, I try to fix it or I try to minimize it because you're trying to shut it down. You want to take care of it and let it go because you don't want the emotion coming at you, and we have all different types of emotional coping strategies that we utilize to try to keep emotions at bay strategies or, to use the language of internal family systems, some of the parts of us that are keeping us in emotional protection instead of emotional connection.

Speaker 1: 7:52

We've got a list here. Let's start with the talker. This is the part of you that here's. Someone asked you a question and you think, oh, now's my chance. And you share and share and share. Meanwhile, the other person's eyes are glazing over. They wanted to say something, but they can't even get a word in because you're going on and on for minutes and minutes.

Speaker 2: 8:22

Because what I need to say is more important than what I need to say is more important than what you have to say. And again, you don't have that mindset, you're not thinking that, but then again, most cases, this is probably someone who grew up and didn't have a voice at home. Right, it felt like they didn't have an outlet. They were shut down a great deal. So now, if an adult, guess what? There's nobody who shut me down, and so therefore, they overextend when it comes to some type of dialogue.

Speaker 1: 8:54

And you probably know what it's like to be with somebody who just keeps going. And if you're in a group with this person, they're taking up a lot of the group and they may not even know that they're doing it. They're not trying to give other people less time to share. It's often coming from this subconscious pain point of being unheard.

Speaker 2: 9:17

Yes, and there's also another aspect that's at you, and what that is is that's inside the people who ramble and go on and on and on and talk forever. They are very ancient people and so therefore, they do that in a way to mask their anxiety.

Speaker 1: 9:36

Yeah, we're going to go through a whole list of these. Another very common one is the fixer.

Speaker 2: 9:44

Oh, the fixer boy, you know what like you have to joke about men. Right, fix things. You know that we will fix the problem. That's what women hate. They're like you try to talk to us, it is like oh, wait a second, I got a solution for you. And again, don't do that because we want to show them how brilliant we are, although, although maybe that's a part of it, but that's not what we're trying to do. We want to shut it down here. Here's your solution. Okay, to go away. So I don't have to be bothered with those emotions. And it's counterproductive Because in many cases, when your partner, your spouse, wants to talk to you about something, about a problem they're having or some issue, they're not looking for a solution, they're just looking to come. But we, although yet go there because the emotion will be coming at us there, will increase our anxiety. So instead, what do I do? Let's see if I can end it as quickly as possible by coming up with a brilliant solution.

Speaker 1: 10:52

Some of us know what it's like to be really vulnerable with someone and how violating it feels for them to say, oh well, have you thought about this thing? You could try, or have you read this book? Or oh, I know just the thing. For that it's like completely missing the emotions Because you're dismissing a person Dismissive.

Speaker 2: 11:17

Yes, you're right, that's stinging.

Speaker 1: 11:22

And I am a recovering fixer Because when I was a kid my emotions were dismissed and sometimes the fixer can have a spiritual side to him where he's trying to give you the right Bible verse or the right theology. That doesn't really help.

Speaker 2: 11:43

No, it doesn't. It doesn't. We have to be very, very careful when it comes to the fixer.

Speaker 1: 11:50

The fixer will sabotage emotional connection. He can solve a lot of problems. Emotional connection is not one of them. Another one is the thinker. The thinker I find is really difficult to work with. The thinker is the guy who's always in his head. He has trouble getting down into the heart space. He can tell you all the right answers, he can analyze everything. But he has so much trouble just being with sadness or anger or loneliness it's so hard for him to actually feel something.

Speaker 2: 12:28

Right, and that's why this is the individual, who somebody is being very emotional to pour their heart out, and he seemed to come across as very aloof and, again, part of it is this fear of I don't know how to really respond to this from an emotional standpoint. So, therefore, let's see if we try to keep it analytical, you know, and it kind of ties into a little bit into the picture in a way where, if you thought about this, you know, or let me tell you something that I saw or I've read you know they're going down that path without being staying away from the emotions that are there and, again, it's another way of protecting yourself, but it comes at the cost of the person being vulnerable because once again, you're being dismissive.

Speaker 1: 13:24

The person being vulnerable because once again you're being dismissive.

Speaker 2: 13:36

The thinker and the fixer, are very good friends with someone who I like to call Mr Right or the editor. I'm laughing because this is probably one of the more common, you know COVID strategies that we get, and that's the guy who I have. He said something and he has to get in. No, no, no, that's not the way it is. This is not what's going on, don't understand. And it's just this constant battle to make sure that what he says and what he feel is seen as this is the right answer. Well, my wife, who is a therapist, has a wonderful, you know line about that. Because you can be right and you can be alone, because, because it does happen at times, because again, the guy is always trying to, again, it's like what you're doing, you're almost like trying to one-up one up and what you really do is try to push them down. So, once again, push people down. What does that do? That makes them withdraw, makes them move aside, and so now oh, guess what I don't have to worry about the emotional onslaught that's coming down.

Speaker 1: 14:50

Mm-hmm. Mr Wright often has a childhood pain point of being falsely accused, being misunderstood, being very criticized yeah, underappreciated pouring her heart out, he will find the 5% of what she said that didn't seem accurate and focus on that.

Speaker 2: 15:23

That's correct. That's exactly what he will do and therefore he's missing again what her pain points are. And if you miss the pain points, one thing we're going to talk about when we do our workshop is about the pain field, that you have to find the pain point, because if you don't, then you know what? You're dead in the water, basically, and she's going to get more and more frustrated and you're going to be sitting here wondering what am I doing wrong? Well, everything You're doing everything wrong and hopefully you know, what Drew and I are going to do is help you guys to learn how to do it the right way.

Speaker 1: 16:03

Yes, our goal is not to guilt you or to shame you, but to empower you, because emotional pain is not a problem to be solved. It's a place to connect. Another character who often shows up is the nice guy, and on the surface level, there's nothing wrong with being nice, and many of us have tried so hard to be nice, especially if we were taught that being a Christian means being nice. But there's a difference between nice and kind. The nice guy is not focused on loving others and being kind so much as he's focused on preventing other people's painful emotions from coming out. He's wanting to make sure that somebody else doesn't feel angry, or somebody else doesn't feel sad, or that somebody else is never going to view him in a negative light. And so underneath this nice persona, there's a lot of fear, there's a lot of shame and often even a bit of manipulation, of wanting to be good enough to control somebody else.

Speaker 2: 17:13

Yeah, because, once again, it's about protecting the son. Okay, that's what they're doing. They're protecting themselves and they will. Even you know, because sometimes we look at the nice guy and say, oh, they're going to follow all the rules. No, you know what, sometimes the nice guy is going to lie and deceive because he said that's what you want to hear, right? Is this what's going to make you happy? Because again said that's what you want to hear, right? Is this what's going to make you happy? Because, again, they don't want to disappoint, and we see this a lot when we're looking at, you know, in the area of betrayal recovery.

Speaker 2: 17:44

There is that nice guy who, again, he feels like, if I bend over backwards to accommodate her, that everything will be okay and when it's not, that's when their resentment start to kick in I'm doing everything I need to do, which they're. When it's not, that's when their resentment starts to kick in I'm doing everything I need to do, which they're not really doing, but that's what they feel. And so now it becomes almost like the title child pops in. Well, you know what I deserve that? Because she's not appreciating what I'm doing and showing her. But this, the nice guy, like you said, it looks like somebody who is trying to do the right thing. He's doing the right thing for the wrong reason, in his own comfort.

Speaker 1: 18:27

Man. That is so true, and this is something that we need to watch out for, because if you do everything that we recommend for learning how to emotionally connect for the wrong reason, then you're still missing the point. The goal of emotional connection is not to get to a point where we can have sex again. It's not to get to a point where she doesn't get angry again. The goal of emotional connection is not to try to get something and so the nice guy or really any of these strategies, can often be a way of just trying to make it. Stop trying to get what I want.

Speaker 2: 19:19

It's all about getting something I want. You have to remember too, we are takers. This is part of what you have to break out of. When you're you know, when you've been dealing with addictive behavior. You have to stop taking the few less, taking the give more, the more you give. That's where you're going to find. Oh wow, my gosh. I feel so much better about myself because I'm putting other people first.

Speaker 1: 19:51

Right, with no expectations and no strings attached for how they're supposed to respond.

Speaker 2: 19:57

That's right, and that's another one of the biggest problems we have too. We have these expectations. Well, if I do this, you're going to do that, right? Oh, hey, you take out the garbage and clean up the kitchen, ok, great, yeah, hey, so we're having to get a bedroom, right? No, that wasn't the deal made here, folks. You know it's not like when we were kids, again like, okay, all right, yeah, take out the barber. Okay, here's your 50 cents for your allowance for what you've done. That's not what a relationship is about, not quote, quote, and we have to understand that. But again, when you're in words and focus, it's very, very hard to understand that.

Speaker 1: 20:40

We don't know what we don't know.

Speaker 2: 20:42

Right, we don't.

Speaker 1: 20:43

Most of these strategies we've been talking about so far happen in conversations with another person. Yet there are also some that take you far away, such as the runner, the avoider, the part of us that just wants to get away from someone else's pain.

Speaker 2: 21:07

This I really. If you look at almost all the different coping strategies that we've been talking about, the rudder is mixed in with all of them, because what we're trying to do is create a sense of comfort. We want comfort in anything that pops into our lives that brings, or even has a potential for bringing, disconcern. We've got to try to get rid of it and in many cases we'll try to get rid of it doing the things you did, like talking about like the fixer or the nice guy thinker. But in some cases you'll know what I have to do is I just have to run away from it because I can't do anything about it. It's there and it's not going away.

Speaker 1: 21:58

And there can be a legitimate place for pushing pause on a conversation so you can go take some deep breaths or go for a walk, but the runner that we're talking about is the one who will find an excuse to go do something else and never come back.

Speaker 2: 22:17

Right, or this is a person who's supposed to be doing the check-in every day and they don't work it up unless they're suffering from it. See, it's those types of things. It's like you know what, maybe if I don't say anything, she'll just forget this ever happened.

Speaker 1: 22:35

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 22:36

Bad strategy, dude Bad strategy, dude Bad strategy.

Speaker 1: 22:41

The runner is really good friends with the distractor. The distractor is the guy who I really resonate with, who immediately feels the urge to get out his phone and go check messages or see if anything new is coming up. The escapist, the one who learned how to survive as a little boy by going into my head, going off into another world where none of this is happening.

Speaker 2: 23:12

This is probably the coping strategy that frustrates women more than anything else, because and again, once again, it's like more of that kind of listen, it's like you don't care, it gives I don't care type of attitude, and that's the message that we deliver here, right, she's trying to talk to you and you message that we deliver to you, right?

Speaker 1: 23:38

She's trying to talk to you and you're still looking at your phone.

Speaker 2: 23:40

Right, right, or you're just, you know, not paying attention, or you're trying, you're there, you're sitting there, but your mind's not there. And why is it not there? Because it's too intense for you and your emotions, once again, are trumping her emotions.

Speaker 1: 23:59

Yeah, and this can be so automatic. We do it without even thinking.

Speaker 2: 24:05

Well, that's what we call dissociation. We do it quite often and you know what? It's more common than people think. Especially in the age of all this technology and all the distractions that we have in our life, it's much more easier to do it, and this is where mindfulness is a big tool that's needed so that you can sit, be calm and be able to stay there and not get overwhelmed.

Speaker 1: 24:38

Learning how to emotionally connect can be overwhelming. It takes practice, it's not easy, and that's why our last character needs to be talked about, the flopper also known as Mr Freeze.

Speaker 2: 24:57

Yeah, we see this very often too, where the person just you know, it's almost like he's wilting in front of her. Okay, again, it's about you. It's about, oh, this is too intense, and I'm not trying to shame anybody, but this is what's going on. This is too intense. This is too intense, this is too hard. This hurts too much. I don't like this.

Speaker 2: 25:20

She's yelling at me and, if you think about it, your inner child is being debated and somebody else is in the room now, whether it's a father, a mother, a sibling, whoever it was, it's over the down street. There's somebody else there, and what you're doing? You just start to wilt in order to try, hopefully, that, oh, I can disappear. And you're not going to disappear, but that's what it is free. Once that anxiety starts to kick in and you, you start to breathe, you're not going to know what to say. You're not going to know what to say, you're not going to know how to say it, or you're definitely going to say something that you should not say. And that's why confidence and we're going to talk a lot about building confidence is so important, so that we don't need these coping strategies any longer. Instead, we can rely on what is the Holy Spirit telling me what is the direction I'm being given, that I can use in these very difficult times?

Speaker 1: 26:24

Yes, because it's so easy for shame to take over. In those moments when you're with somebody in the middle of their pain and you don't know what to say and you don't know what to do, and it feels overwhelming, shame takes over. We want to help you be able to notice when that's happening and come out of it so that you can emotionally connect.

Speaker 2: 26:50

We have a lot of stuff that's lined up for these folks. We have a lot of information and I really believe that, ultimately, it's going to be a blueprint that is going to help them to be able to start to break free of the fears that they have so that they be able to engage more with their partner and therefore help to rebuild the relationship.

Speaker 1: 27:18

And while our main focus is men who want to help their wives heal and emotionally connect after sexual betrayal, these principles and these skills apply to any relationship Friendships, work relationships, relationships with your kids. This will not just be information. You will have a chance to actually practice showing up in those situations where your temptation is to be like a deer in the headlights, or to fight or to run away. We're going to work with you and help you notice how you're showing up. You'll identify some of these barriers to emotional connection and how to overcome them. It's so beautiful when we learn the relational skills that we were never taught as boys.

Speaker 2: 28:06

Tell men constantly that emotional intimacy is so much more powerful than physical intimacy, and when they first hear that they're like, yeah, right, but once they start to get into it they understand that they can engage fully. It's so true. It's true because, again, what God's design for a relationship, the foundation, is supposed to be about emotional bonding, and then we're supposed to take the physical and sprinkle it in to support that. Many of us men we have it backwards. That means we laid a foundational relationship on physical intimacy and we'll sprinkle in some pseudo-emotional stuff I love you, you're some flowers things like that, to try to support the physical and to get more physical engagement in the relationship.

Speaker 1: 29:10

That sounds like the nice guy and the fixer yeah there's quite a few in there, aren't there? We're going to help you allow those protective parts to step aside so your true self can show up.

Speaker 2: 29:29

Emotional connection is the foundation of any good relationship, and it's also, I believe, one of the antidotes for addictive behaviors. There's something that many of us don't quite understand. We've been chasing after lust for a long, long time. We're using it as a substitute. For a long, long time we were using it as a substitute. What we were really seeking was emotional connection. We just didn't know it. So once you start to be able to build that muscle, strengthen that muscle, it could change everything about life. I love that so much.

Speaker 1: 30:17

So true. Maybe you've heard the phrase the opposite of addiction is not sobriety. The opposite of addiction is connection. But what is that? How can I experience it? How can I work on my skills to emotionally connect? That's what this workshop is about. So let's talk about the details. If you're interested in joining Eddie Caparucci and I at the Emotional Connection Workshop for Men, it will be on April 11th, it'll be six hours long, and if you're not able to attend, you can get access to all the recordings when you sign up at drewboacom.

Speaker 2: 30:53

It's going to be a pretty incredible event. There's a lot of things that we have planned that, I think, is going to kind of blow your mind. I think you've got to walk away with a lot of knowledge and insight that are going to be able to help move to the next level of your recovery.

Speaker 1: 31:14

And we also know that learning emotional connection doesn't happen in one day, so we're offering some follow-up meetings as well for you to continue to integrate this into your life. We know that we don't just learn by hearing. We learn by doing so as much as possible. This workshop is going to empower you to do the work.

Speaker 2: 31:35

I'm big into the preparing, the preparation, okay, be able to spend time understanding, okay, what the dynamics I'm going to be facing and what are some of the solutions. How can I approach it in a different way? Or let's go back into the trenching again and do it again. No, let's find a different way of when we get in the trenching to be able to handle that in a smarter way, a more effective way and a way that again helps you to grow, because you're taking that emotional muscle and you're strengthening it.

Speaker 1: 32:12

So, whether you already have a lot of emotional connection in your life or you feel like you have none, this is going to be a safe place for you to learn and grow and heal, and there are some surprises that we've been saving up that we're excited to share with you. Eddie, what is your favorite thing about emotional connection?

Speaker 2: 32:35

It's just a sense of peace, boy, when we all like peace, that's what we really want. Anyway, we don't have peace in our lives. We haven't had peace in our lives in many cases because we've been so marred in this addictive behavior that we've had in the lives and the deceptions and trying to hide things you know. And now I get to be able to say no, no more, there's no more of that. In fact, what there is, there's a person I can go to, that I can share the pain, I can share the hurt that I'm dealing with and I can get it out and not be judged, not be ridiculed, but be accepted. There's nothing warmer than that type of feeling.

Speaker 1: 33:25

Amen. And isn't that what God wants to have with us, not just an intellectual relationship, but a deep emotional connection, a secure attachment.

Speaker 2: 33:41

That is why God sent his son to die for our sins so that we can have a connection with him, that one day we will actually walk side by side with him.

Speaker 1: 33:55

So if you guys want to join us at the Emotional Connection Workshop for Men, go down to the link in the description or just go to drewboacom. We would love to see you there. Always remember you are God's beloved son and you he is well-pleased.