Speaker 1: 0:31

Welcome to the Husband Material podcast, where we help Christian men outgrow porn. Why? So you can change your brain, heal your heart and save your relationship. My name is Drew Boa and I'm here to show you how let's go. Today's episode is a replay from HMA in a Day, where I teach how to face your sexual fantasies, how to understand your specific sexual attractions, arousal and desires. This episode is a preview of Husband Material Academy. I'm going to be teaching directly from the HMA video course and at the end, I will lead you in a guided meditation, helping you get to the core of what is underneath your fantasies, not only revealing the depths of your heart, but also healing your heart. Enjoy the episode.

Speaker 1: 1:25

One of the most unique things about HMA is that we don't treat sexual fantasies as problems to be solved or enemies to be conquered. Rather, we treat our fantasies as stories, stories that can teach us so much In session two today. So much In session two. Today. You are going to learn how to face your fantasies Rather than fight against them, rather than flee them, rather than ignore them or pretend they don't exist or just try to remove them. We're going to take a different approach. For some of you, this may seem like new or innovative, but it's actually not. This movement towards understanding what is sexually arousing and attractive has been already developing for decades, started in the 1980s when Patrick Carnes, who coined the term sex addiction, also coined the term arousal template to describe the unique combination of sights, sounds, feelings, smells that a person experiences as arousing so turning you on, or, on the other hand, what turns you off? Or, on the other hand, what turns you off. And all of that is really important data Sexologist Michael Bader called our fantasies microchips that contain a vast amount of information. Now, patrick Carnes created the term arousal template and then some of his certified sex addiction therapists, like Mark Lacer, marnie Free, ted Roberts took his insights and brought them to the Christian community and, most recently, jay Stringer, with his book Unwanted, has given us a really helpful approach to viewing our sexual fantasies as roadmaps.

Speaker 1: 3:31

If, at any point, you feel like this session is taking you in a direction you don't want to go, then please feel free to remove yourself or to not engage with some of the exercises. We really want to make sure that you are safe, and your safety is a higher priority than being able to participate as much as you wish you could. Our goal is not to fixate on our fantasies. Our goal is not even really to look at our fantasies in the sense of, you know, watching porn, but our goal is to look inside of us at why certain things are appealing. What is this specific type of porn or this specific fantasy promising to my heart? And getting to know the little boy who first developed this fantasy? And you're going to see that, not only in how you process emotional triggers but also sexual triggers. So with that in mind, here we go.

Speaker 1: 4:44

Session two is about to begin. Emma is saying HMA is like nothing I've experienced in my 30-year healing journey. That's amazing, awesome. My 30 year healing journey that's amazing, awesome. And yeah, so far, the book unwanted is the resource that's most closely aligned with what I'm teaching in HMA and it's by Jay Stringer, so you can check that out. Of course, next year my book, hopefully, is going to come out and then that will be a great resource for everyone as well.

Speaker 1: 5:14

This is going to be vulnerable, this is not going to be comfortable, and this is so, so important Because as long as you don't understand your sexual fantasies, you will have a love-hate relationship with them. Porn is going to have power over you. It's going to feel like a frustrating, exhausting battle until you can do the work I'm about to lead you into. What do you find to be not just attractive but irresistible? Don't share the graphic details. Just a basic, generic overview gay porn, frat porn, domination, oral sex, sexting when clothes get wet okay. Bondage, helplessness, transsexual porn, real couples, someone beautiful, topless, voyeurism, bdsm, incest porn. Girl on girl, female domination, shoes, lesbian porn, nude and outside hookups, male vulnerability. So you see, we have such a wide variety of what is appealing to us Climaxing tattoos, piercings, athletic women, an attractive man, passion, eye contact, stepmom For me, teenage girls with braces, which makes a lot of sense.

Speaker 1: 7:14

If you were part of session one and you heard some of my story, humiliation has also been a big one for me. So first of all, let's take a deep breath and honor the courage that it takes to even just acknowledge that there are not many safe places where you can actually talk about this stuff. Not everyone's able to hold space for these conversations, conversations and not every community has a culture of curiosity and compassion and confidentiality and celebration where you can trust that when you share something, it's going to be healing. Now I also acknowledge that sharing these kinds of things is vulnerable and there are people in our community who have preyed upon other community members and sharing these kinds of things. So you really do need to be cautious about if, where and how you share about your specific sexual fantasies and attractions. Right here in this setting, we're going to scratch the surface. It's going to be a lot easier for you to do this work if you're in a group, if you're doing one-on-one, if you're in Husband Material Academy, than if you're alone at home at a computer just by yourself for the day. So thank you for trusting me and also I want to challenge you to trust yourself and how far you're able to go, how deep you're able to go in this setting.

Speaker 1: 9:09

Did you hear how many different, interesting, intricate details there were when I asked okay, what arouses you? There is no such thing as normal porn or porn in general. There is only very specific sexual stimulation and the power of porn is in the particularity. It's in the particularity Because there are certain things that turn us off. There are certain things that turn us on. That's what Patrick Carnes calls your arousal template Certain types of people, certain types of behaviors, certain types of activities, and then every trigger tells a story. There's always a reason why certain things stand out more than others. In order to really understand your sexual fantasies, you have to get into the particularities. You can't just stay on the surface, and even saying something like men or women or children is still not very particular. So here are some questions you can ask yourself to get into the particularity, to begin to understand, okay, what is happening here.

Speaker 1: 10:39

In every story there are characters and those characters want something. If the characters don't want anything, there's no story and those characters are coming up against some kind of obstacle or some kind of problem, and in order to get what they want, they have to solve the problem. So in your fantasy, who are the characters? Do those characters remind you of anybody? Maybe somebody reminds you of your mom. Maybe somebody reminds you of your mom. Maybe somebody reminds you of your dad. Maybe somebody reminds you of brother or sister, other kids at school. Maybe somebody reminds you of your first sexual partner or the person who first stimulated you. Just take note of that. And what are they doing? What do they want?

Speaker 1: 11:42

In my fantasy one of my strongest, darkest fantasies I was the orthodontist putting braces on the teeth of a teenage girl with my penis, hmm, interesting. So the characters are this sort of honest person who's kind of like me. There's also this teenage girl. What I found out is that actually the teenage girl is also kind of like me too, a teenager who feels humiliated and powerless. That was me in the story I shared in session one.

Speaker 1: 12:31

There is an aspect of each fantasy which is probably something you can identify with, probably something you can't identify with. For example, maybe you identify with the person who's being stimulated, or, let's say, you have a fantasy about a man, a man who's really strong or who's really confident, or who's really athletic, or whatever. You might identify as the opposite of him, and I suggest that perhaps there is a part of you also in that man that you're not in touch with, that you're not aware of Some other questions you can ask In this fantasy how are you being saved? Fantasy is not primarily a problem. It's solving a problem. There's a story. What are you being saved from?

Speaker 1: 13:27

Even in a fantasy in which you're being harmed, you still might be saved from something else. For example, if you are in a fantasy in which somebody else has all the control and they are dominating you, perhaps you are being saved from guilt and responsibility over being the one who is the one who did the action. Maybe in a fantasy where there are only women, you're being saved from men. Maybe in a fantasy where there are only men, you're being saved from women. Maybe in a fantasy where there are only children, you're being saved from adults. What are you being saved from and what are the qualities of these people? Maybe qualities that you are attracted to? Oftentimes, those are the very qualities we don't see in ourselves and in the fantasy. What do you get to have? What's the happy ending? Oftentimes we don't allow the fantasy to continue because by the time we get to something really arousing, we're already reaching an orgasm. But if the fantasy was to continue, how would it end? These are the questions that I'm bringing up so that you can have a sense of direction about where to go in exploring these things.

Speaker 1: 14:56

In Husband Material Academy, you have a course and a process to be able to answer those questions. You have people with whom you can process these things. We have coaching calls every week where you can work with somebody, and we can not only reveal what's underneath these fantasies, but also heal what's underneath these fantasies, and we're going to do that later in the session. We're going to demonstrate how do we actually work with a specific fantasy. We're going to demonstrate how do we actually work with a specific fantasy. There's one major insight that I want to share for now that makes so much sense. It's actually not from the HMA course. It's from the Healing from Sexual Abuse course. It's one of the bonus courses that you can get if you sign up this weekend and it comes from my friend, doug Carpenter. It's also in the Husband Material podcast episode.

Speaker 1: 16:00

Sexual Arousal vs Sexual Desire. If you want to understand your fantasies and what arouses you, you need to learn the difference between sexual arousal and sexual desire. Sexual arousal is what your body craves. Sexual desire is what your heart longs for. Sexual arousal is based on stimulation automatic reactions triggers. Arousal is based on stimulation automatic reactions triggers. Sexual desire is based on the type of intimacy and affection you truly want, not just what turns you on. Sexual arousal is based on physical connections. Sexual desire is based on a heart connection what arouses you.

Speaker 1: 16:47

Can reveal what you desire, but it's actually not what you desire. Porn may arouse you, but it's not what you really want. Or, on the other hand, maybe your wife doesn't necessarily sexually arouse you, but she is the person you desire. This can be so helpful in so many areas of recovery, both individually to say, okay, this arouses me, but it's not what I desire, and also relationally saying to your wife perhaps, if you're married, I desire you. I'm not experiencing arousal with you, but at a deep level, I long for you. So arousal is the surface level of what we're experiencing. It's just what your body craves. Urges are what you want to do. As a result of that, fantasies are the stories that ignite your imagination, and then, underneath those fantasies are desires.

Speaker 1: 17:46

So much of our healing journey is about discovering our desires. So, in order to help you discover your desires, I've got a list here. I'm going to put it on the screen and I want you to come in the chat and tell me, from a gut level, what do you deeply desire? What do you deeply desire? Look at this right-hand column. Look at this right-hand column. Acceptance, adventure, affirmations, authenticity, beauty being chosen, being desired, being known, being pursued, being noticed, belonging, care, certainty, community connection, control, delight, escape, friendship, home, honesty, honor, inclusion, intimacy, love, nurture, peace, play, pleasure, power, protection, purpose, relief, rest, safety, significance, strength, thrill, touch and worth. All of these things are good. God created us to experience these. That's why I call them divine desires.

Speaker 1: 19:12

And these desires, when they are thwarted, can easily become sexualized. We settle for a symbolic, sexual version of what we desire, and we desire all of them, but usually there are some that stand out. There are some desires that are just so deep, because they've been so neglected or unmet, that it just feels like the core of who you are is I need this. And I know there's maybe a distinction between desires and needs. I see you all putting in what you desire. Here Let me say that you may be at war with these desires. You may feel weak or inferior because you have these desires. My friend, you're not weak, you're human.

Speaker 1: 20:04

Desire is part of who we are and when we distinguish between our arousal and our desire, it really helps us figure out, okay, what to do. Because a lot of you guys are thinking well, you know, I'll never get what I desire, I can't have what I desire. Well, that may be true for arousal. You may never get the. You know the type of arousal it simulates you. But you can satisfy your desires. You can get a deep level of fulfillment and healing and wholeness in what your heart longs for, even if it's not what your body craves. So you guys are doing such a good job right now of just naming your desires.

Speaker 1: 20:53

That's where we start with understanding our fantasies. Here's where it gets interesting. You remember, in session one we did the floss method and the biggest question of the floss method is when have I felt this way before? Well, we are going to turn that question upside down. When you're analyzing your sexual fantasies and your sexual attractions that are really, really strong, you ask the question when have I felt the opposite? So once again, I'm going to pull up this list of desires.

Speaker 1: 21:34

Think about that desire that resonates most with you on the right-hand column, and then, if you look at the left-hand column, that's the opposite. So, for example, the opposite of pleasure is pain. The opposite of certainty is uncertainty. The opposite of acceptance is rejection. The opposite of rest is exhaustion. So take that desire, let's say, just for connection. What's the opposite of that Disconnection? When have I felt that before? Opposite of that Disconnection, when have I felt that before? So, when you have what arouses you at the surface level, find the desire underneath it, at the soul level, and then ask when have I felt the opposite. This is how you find the origin stories behind your sexual fantasies. It's how you find the origin stories behind your sexual fantasies. When have I felt the opposite of what I desire? So put in the chat what is the opposite of what you desire.

Speaker 1: 22:43

Okay, a lot of people saying rejection, that's a huge one. That's big. For me too. Rejection is huge. Being abandoned Yeah's a huge one. That's big. For me too, rejection is huge. Being abandoned yeah. Indifference, feeling weak, disrespected, unchosen, not being known, isolation, contempt, feeling ugly, feeling unmanly. What is different? Yeah, no, play, no purpose, no peace. So now you can see how our pain points and our pleasure points are both revealing deeper stories, stories that we're carrying in our bodies, stories that are coming out sideways sexually. Our attachments and compulsions to porn are not primarily sexual. They're emotional, symbolizing what we desire. When you can meet your desires in a healthy, wholesome, healing way, porn loses its power. You don't need the arousal when you have the desire. You guys are doing really good work right now. What is standing out to you? It's beginning to make sense.

Speaker 1: 24:21

Sometimes your sexual fantasy might involve something like rejection or indifference, like in the fantasy, and there are different reasons for that. Sometimes that helps it feel real, because you can't even imagine what it would be like to not experience those things Like my sexual fantasy sometimes involved me being humiliated. What's with that? Sometimes it's because, by fantasizing about it, I have some level of control or choice about it. Rather than just having it happen to me, I'm the one making it happen. There are lots of different storylines here.

Speaker 1: 24:49

I want to emphasize that there is no single cause to any sexual fantasy. Rather, there are many contributing factors. You can't just look at oh, I had this childhood experience, so, um, as a result of that, I have these sexual fantasies. It's not always a direct connection. It's more like a recipe that has many different things involved in it. The more you study your story, the more you see different contributors. And this is important because we're not blaming our past, we're not blaming our parents, we're not blaming our peers, or we're not blaming porn, but rather we're naming how our sexual development was shaped, how it got stunted, and always having curiosity Because I might think I know where all this stuff comes from, but there's always more to learn. We are now going to do a little bit of work to help you get to the core of your fantasy and to be able to process the experiences underneath it. Here we go. This is going to be an experiential exercise that you may or may not want to participate in. You're welcome to simply watch or to come along for the ride.

Speaker 1: 26:12

In unit six of HMA, I teach my approach to working with triggers and fantasies and really healing the wounds underneath them, and it's called older brother coaching, essentially, becoming the older brother to your inner child, to the part of you that has this fantasy, to the little boy who first encountered porn or who first developed these fantasies. How do you work with that little boy? How do you help him? That's what I'm about to teach you. Older brother coaching essentially has three steps. You got to locate the boy, love the boy and lead the boy. Locate the boy, love the boy and lead the boy. The first step is to locate the boy, which we've already been starting to do.

Speaker 1: 27:09

Remember when I asked you what do you deeply desire? And then, when have you felt the opposite? That's how you start to locate the boy. That's how you start to find out. Who is it really? Who has this sexual fantasy? It's not the adult man, it's a little boy. So I want to invite you to picture that boy, to bring him into your imagination, the one who felt rejected or whose desires were unmet. Can you see him? What do you see? If you have this little boy in your mind, whether he's a child, teenager, maybe even an infant, how do you feel toward him? Remember we asked this question in session one. If you feel anything other than love, I want to invite those feelings to step aside so that you can enter in with sadness, so you can enter in with compassion, curiosity, connection. And if you are now in a place where you would like to spend some time with that little boy, then in a moment you have a chance to enter his world as your current adult self.

Speaker 1: 29:04

Drake says he looks like a little homeless kid. Jim says he's so sad. Dwayne says he's a kid sitting by himself in a class full of kids. B says in some ways he's trying to be unnoticed. Perry says I'm crying.

Speaker 1: 29:18

The next step is to love the boy as your current adult self. Come to him Right now. There's nothing to do, nothing to say. I want you to approach him from a safe, comfortable distance. If he's in a bedroom, maybe you want to be on the outside of the door. Maybe knock on the door. If he's in an open space, don't come too close. Maybe get down on his level and with no agenda, take a moment to just be with him. Just be with him and see what happens. And see what happens. You may feel the urge to hug him. You may feel the urge to say something. Save that for later. Just be with him. Notice what you notice. How is he reacting to you? Is he afraid of you? Is he eager and happy to see you? Does he know who you are? Just allow it to unfold. If you want, you can ask the Holy Spirit to lead this process and if he doesn't trust you, honor him and give him space. Just be with him Right now. Your goal is not to fix him, not to teach him, not even to save him, but to see him and know him. And as you go with the flow, what happens next? What happens next? Allow your imagination to run with this. What does this boy need from you right now? If he feels unsafe, he needs protection. If he feels alone, he needs connection. You guys are doing so well.

Speaker 1: 32:30

Looking in the chat Beautiful work. There's so many chat messages here that are amazing. I'm just going to let it happen, and if you're feeling some resistance to the kid within yourself, just be aware of that. That may be enough for today to stop there If you want to keep going. You can Remember that this kid has not only been rejected or wounded by people from the past. He's also probably been rejected by you. Wounded by people from the past. He's also probably been rejected by you. He's also probably been ignored and abandoned, maybe even abused by you. You may want to apologize for how you have treated this kid or just been unaware of him. If you're reaching the edge of what you can handle, notice that. And if you want to keep going, you can go towards the third step, which is lead the boy. Do you locate the boy after you love the boy? Let me tell you how to lead the boy. Do you locate the boy after you love the boy? Let me tell you how to lead the boy.

Speaker 1: 34:13

First, listen to him. What is he saying to you? He's not saying anything with his words. What is his body saying to you? Just listen, rece, honest and courageous. If you want, you can repeat back what he's saying. I hear you saying this, something as simple as that.

Speaker 1: 35:13

Some other responses. If you need help with this could be that makes sense or you know what's it like for you. Is there anything he wants to do? What does he want to do? If you need space from you, give him space. Is there anything he wants to do? What does he want to do If he needs space from you, give him space. If he needs to come close, let him come close. Does he want to play? Does he want to hug? If you're meeting him in the past, does he want to come into the present with you? Would he like that? Don't overthink it. Just go with your gut. What does he want to do? If this isn't resonating, that's okay. Whatever he wants to do, can you join him? A voice and a choice. See if he might be open to something else from you and if he's receptive, you may want to give him a blessing. Maybe it's just the blessing of your eyes and eye contact. Maybe it's the blessing of a hug. Maybe it's the blessing of words that he needs to hear, words that he desperately longs to hear. Maybe you can just appreciate him for allowing you to spend this time together.

Speaker 1: 37:39

There's no formula for this. Even if it doesn't make sense, go with it. Let it happen If it feels right and if you want to. You can also notice if Jesus is there with you. See if you can sense his presence. Where is Jesus? What is he saying? What is he doing? How is he relating to that little boy? If you need to stop, you can stop. Sometimes Jesus can break through that little boy in a way that you or I cannot.

Speaker 1: 39:02

Even if this is not really working out for you, it's giving you a really accurate picture of where you're getting stuck and what the problem might be. And if this is working for you, oh my goodness, keep going. Don't overthink it. You are using your imagination to heal. You are using your imagination to heal. Your imagination was hijacked by porn and unwanted sexual attractions, but now it's being redeemed and reclaimed by the one who created it. It's not a bad part of you. It's a beautiful part of you. Right now, you're using it to meet your desires. Now you're using it to meet your desires. If you feel like you're coming to a stopping point, that's great. If you want to keep going, that's great too. I'm so glad you're here. I'm so grateful for all of you witnessing each other in this moment. We're creating new stories, new neural pathways in our imaginations.

Speaker 1: 40:32

This experience was a kind of fantasy in a way. Right, it's a story you're imagining. It's igniting your imagination, and if you had a hard time with it, that's okay. That's why we're here. That's why Husband Material Academy exists to help you through it. That's why working with somebody one-on-one, or any one of our retreats can really help.

Speaker 1: 40:57

This is something that you can do with a coach, a therapist or counselor. It's also something that you might be able to do on your own. This is another tool for your toolbox today. Locate the boy, love the boy, lead the boy. It could be as simple as wow, I'm feeling so sexually triggered. Hello childhood, let's go call a friend. It could be that simple.

Speaker 1: 41:30

This experience may not have tied up neatly in a bow. Hopefully, this is going to take you into an environment, a community, a process where you can pick up from where you left off. Now you know a little bit more about what it looks like and what it feels like to access the deeply held feelings and desires in our souls. Our sexuality and our spirituality is so connected. The surface level, sexual thoughts and feelings, are like the tip of the iceberg, and underneath all of that. There are these soul level desires. A lot of you guys are saying I'm in tears. Some of you guys are saying I'm in tears. Some of you guys are saying I'm feeling numb. Thank you for sharing. Thank you so much for sticking with me through the entire teaching. This has been a preview of Husband Material Academy. We only open up the doors to HMA twice a year, in January and also in July. So if you would like to join HMA or learn what it's all about, go to joinhmacom and always remember my friend you are God's beloved son. In you he is well-pleased.