The Fear of Being Vulnerable

Speaker 1 0:01

Welcome to the Husband Material podcast , where we help Christian men outgrow porn . Why ? So you can change your brain , heal your heart and save your relationship . My name is Drew Boa and I'm here to show you how let's go . Hey man , thanks for listening to my interview with Trent Dolly High . He has an amazing story . Thanks for listening to my interview with Trent Dolly High . He has an amazing story . In this episode . Trent is so vulnerable . You will witness his tears multiple times as he shares so authentically and , at the very end , gives us some of the best advice I've ever heard . Enjoy the episode . Today we are with Trent Dolly High , a professional coach who is trained by Dr Andrew Bauman , and they do a lot of amazing work together , and that's how I met him , trent , welcome to Husband Material .

Speaker 2 0:53

Drew , it's great to be here . Thank you for inviting me . This is scary for me because anytime I feel like I'm on a stage or you know , there's a , there's an old mask for me of performing . So , uh , it's good for me to to feel the nerves and to step into that .

Speaker 1 1:14

Yeah , and to feel the vulnerability , because what we're talking about today is the fear of being vulnerable today is the fear of being vulnerable .

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That was my fear growing up for so long was that , if you knew the real Trent , one of the deep core lies that I think brought so much destruction to me as an individual was that I truly believed that , if you knew the real Trent , there's no way , there's no way you're going to want him , because I knew the real trend and I didn't want him . So how's that going to be any different for you ? And of course , I understand that now you know , as a form of narcissism . But you know , growing up and and learning to , you know to perform , to survive .

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I had no idea what was going on . I didn't have any self-awareness , I just knew that I felt like my insides were in constant turmoil and so I was just grasping , looking for ways , you know , to get my needs met . You know to be approved of , to be seen , to be wanted , to be okay . Am I enough ? There's a lot this world has to offer to give you some forms of that . But through it all , when you learn to wear those masks , you know one of the results is you have no idea who you are , and it's exhausting . It's exhausting .

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I remember reading a sentence about this no one told me that when I wear a mask , only the mask receives love . Isn't that true ?

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mask receives love . Isn't that true ? It is . That's so much of my story .

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Growing up in a very religious , legalistic home in the Baptist world , I knew that my mom and dad loved me . I believe they loved me the best that they could from their own stories and journeys and experience . But what it was like for me growing up in a home like that was just , it was scary , it was inconsistent . We would wear one mask on Sunday morning but then , you know , my mom had a lot of inner rage inside of her and then she'd beat the shit out of me , you know , during the week and it was just so confusing , like , what are we doing ? Like , when I got a haircut , it had to be a certain way . I couldn't let my hair grow out . You know , dad always made sure we had , you know , short haircuts , which I didn't . It wasn't that big a deal then , but I look back on it now and it , you know it lines up with the rest of the facade , you know .

Speaker 2 3:43

And growing up in that home I felt like I was a stranger in my own home . So dad was passive , mom was very aggressive and dominant , but yet , you know , nurturing and caring at times . But I didn't learn until later that my mom had been sexually abused . She had been brutally beaten by her mom and dad you know my grandpa and grandma . I had no idea . All I knew was that I never knew what I was going to get from one day to the next . And so this rage began to develop inside of me because I started to get angry . But if I got angry I got beat for that too . So it's like this is so wrong , this is so confusing . My mom can lose her shit , but I can't express , I can't feel so I would literally go to my bedroom at times and throw my face into a pillow and just scream and yell where nobody could hear me . Or I would take things and I would break them underneath my blanket on my bed so nobody could hear the destruction . And even describing that now in the work that I do , that's so unhealthy , it's suffocating .

Speaker 2 5:05

And I remember at one point I think this was probably the story that broke me I mean and I didn't just get beat my mom would come at me with both fists like a man and literally just beat me like a punching bag . And I was just a little boy , I mean , I had no chance . And so at one point I remember I was crying and upset about something . I don't know exactly what it was , but I knew that she was very upset and I couldn't stop crying . And so she came over to me , took a pillow , stuffed it over top of my face and , screaming shut up , shut up . And I couldn't breathe . I started suffocating .

Speaker 2 5:48

I remember in that moment I thought my mom was trying to kill me and that broke me , that broke my spirit , and I think that's the day where I began to believe that I didn't matter . If the one woman in your life that birthed you doesn't want you and is trying to kill you , what do you have left ? And so , not long after that , I began to fantasize . Probably around seven or eight years old , began to fantasize . I was going to take my dad's .22 pistol . I still see it hanging up in his closet , with a white handle and a leather holster . I was going to take dad's .22 pistol and I was going to kill my mom and I was going to take my life . Just stop the pain , just go ahead and just end it all . Take my life , just stop the pain , just go ahead and just end it all . And you're not supposed to be thinking like that when you're eight years old ? You're just a kid , but yet from the outside . So here's the irony I grew up in Mayberry man this was Mount Airy , north Carolina , where Andy Griffith

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was born . Like this is literally Mayberry , this is the happy place where we go fishing and we whistle , and I did like on the outside . I had some of that life . You know , we would watch the Andy Griffith show almost religiously , like around dinnertime , about four or five days a week . So that whole scene is happening while this other scene is happening . If you can see the duality , the confusion of what was actually going on , I supposedly received Christ , gave my life to Christ around eight or nine years old in the local Baptist church , felt like I understood , you know , the gospel as it was presented and kind of grabbed a hold of that religious context to try to find some kind of foundation , something to hang

Speaker 2 8:00

on to . So being angry at my mom was easy . Being angry at dad , that's not allowed . I couldn't let myself be angry at my dad because he was the good guy . Mom's the one who beat the crap out of me . Dad's the one who would actually hold me and hug me when he would discipline me . He always made a point to wrap me up and say you know , I love you and this hurts me too , and he was like the gentle giant . But that was probably the only time I felt that kind of closeness was right after he , you know ,

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with me . So growing up in that I felt like I had to protect dad from mom and protect myself from mom . And then my older brother , who also got beat by mom , would take his anger out on me too . So I got beat by mom , beat by my older brother , and so I learned to go outside and run away . So the way that I coped was literally to go outside , to go to the woods . So the woods , nature , animals , became my safety . That's where I

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escaped to . And then , when I started being able to go up , you know , to see the neighbors and hang out with neighborhood kids , that's where I was first introduced to internet porn . And it wasn't just a Playboy magazine , it wasn't . This was hardcore porn on a screen . This was back in the early 80s . Man , we had these huge satellites talking to aliens in outer space with these things , and he had this knob in his living room that would turn it , and I remember it like it was yesterday . I'm in his living room and he goes , hey , check this out . And he turns a knob and that satellite outside starts to turn . The next thing I know there's adults having sex on a screen right in front of me , just

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like that . And in that moment I was , I was mesmerized . I felt energy , things happening in my body I had never felt before . That was my sex ed . That's where I was introduced and I realize now that the power that that had for me was that because it was so powerful , it was a moment in time where I didn't . It was a moment in time where I didn't feel the hurt and the pain of home . I had found something that was more powerful than what was happening at home . And I believe now understanding more about it , that in an instant I was hooked . That was like crack cocaine for me . It only took one hit , one experience , and I

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was hooked . And then , from there , my friend and I began to you know , experiment right , be sexual together . And there was a lot of shame in that because he you know he was a guy , you know , a boy like me . And then eventually that led to , you know , a boy like me , and then eventually that led to , you know , led to sexual abuse where he tried to uh , perform oral sex with me against my will and but I , you know , pulled away , you know , got him away from me and it was during a sleepover . And I remember that night just weeping , feeling such loneliness and fear and shame because nobody knew , I didn't tell anybody what was happening at the neighbor's house up the road , you know , I remember , you know his dad would watch porn every night and I would see his dad , you know , on the couch watching porn and everything felt wrong and everything felt wrong . But yet the power of how it took me to a different place . It's like that's where I learned that I could create a world within a world , yeah , so that I could live , I could actually have something different and have some power and control in a way that I didn't have , I didn't have at home . Yeah , so that led me into a life of ,

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ultimately , addiction . Eventually , years later , when I blew my life up , my therapist told me Trent , your childhood story was the perfect storm for sex addiction , and I was pissed . I was like why ? You know the classic , why me ? You know , why me , god Like , why'd you let this happen ? And so that's what I did Most of my life . I became the victim . I blamed God . I literally shook my fist at God and said I hate you and I hate the story that you gave me . So I'm going to write a new story . I'm going to write a story that people will love and accept . And I did , and I was good at it , and it wasn't real . And eventually the kingdom that I built came crumbling down as I progressed into that and I eventually met

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my wife . I took that poor woman hostage and she had no idea . I still feel that , the pain , the remorse , the regret of how badly I hurt her and I'm completely responsible . I don't blame my mom , I don't blame my childhood . It was me . It was me and how I did not handle my hurt and pain well at all and I made her a God . I made her a God and I needed her goodness because she was so good Like she was really good . Her nickname in college was the nun . I know how to pick them . You know I picked the perfect . I picked the perfect woman because I felt like I was the bad one . I hated myself and so I had to have the perfect woman to prop me up that I could lean against . I had no idea who I was , I had no identity , but I felt like she did and so I right , I captured her . I didn't know any of that then , but I understand it and I feel it so

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clearly now . Then I went to Alabama to ministry oh , you know , youth ministry Loved it , having a blast , but still struggling with secret , secret porn and masturbation . Nobody knew it was getting worse . You know I found myself , you know , objectifying . You know , high school girls , college women , you know , being close to a university and just inner turmoil . But yet everything around me was growing oil , but yet everything around me was growing . And then went to Georgia to become an associate pastor with a friend to do a church replant . You're just following that classic Baptist ministry path , right , because this is what I was given my life to . But yet there was still this part of me that felt out

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of place . As I continued down that journey , I began to feel the disconnect of the real Trent and the mask I was wearing and the person I was trying to become . I was trying so hard to be good like my wife , because she was already good . If I could just be good if I could just stop looking at porn and masturbating . Everything would be okay . But little did I know that one . That was never going to happen , because it doesn't work

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that way .

Finding Redemption Through Vulnerability

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Nobody gets well , nobody gets free alone and then believe in those core lies of if I go to Drew , if I go to Drew and I tell Drew who I really am and what's really going on , I'm guaranteed I'm going to lose everything , like that was my guarantee to lose it all . So why the hell would I do that ? Of course , what's the other option ? You get a white knucklet , mean you got to try harder . So I've learned to intellectualize . So I did research , I studied , I read books about the brain and how this works , and so I thought I could think myself out as intellectualization became a major coping mechanism for me and in the world that actually serves you well , because people think you're smart . So now I tell people I say yeah , yeah , I'm so smart , I'm so smart and talented and gifted that I ended up in rehab . Yeah , that's how smart I am . Right , come

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follow me . You know , I didn't see all of that , all of that then . So everything around me began to grow and see my leadership and see my abilities and gifting and man , that felt amazing , oh my gosh . I started to feel wanted and so ministry became a drug for me . I began to use ministry and the stage almost as a way to get high . And Mondays , oh my gosh , when Monday come , monday was like torture . You know why ? Because I took my drug on Sunday and hundreds of people are coming to me and giving me this power accolades , and then Monday

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it's gone . Planted a church , it grew , and yet there I was , completely alone , literally sitting in an office in this huge facility , literally all by myself , and I would just put my head on my desk and I would just start crying Like how can life be so good ? How can I be at a place where it feels like I've got everything I've ever wanted , and yet I feel dead inside and I hate myself and I have no idea how I'm going to maintain this , sustain this . So , not long after that , it was actually one of my kids who actually discovered me acting out one night . That's when everything blew up . That was D-Day .

Speaker 1 18:58

So what did she discover ? You doing ?

Speaker 2 19:00

She basically caught me masturbating and acting out and because she was 17 years old , I told my counselor what happened and he reported that I got charged , you know , for exposure . I had no idea that she was around there but it didn't matter , and so you know they took that very seriously . They took that very seriously . There's more to the story but I don't feel comfortable making that this public because this involves my children . But I'm responsible and it still haunts me to this day that it was my precious 17 year old daughter . She saw the real Trent and I was a scared little boy who was carrying the weight of the world and an absolute coward who would not humble himself and take the risk of telling the truth and asking for help . And that cost me everything and it damaged my kids in a way that only God can help . I checked myself into rehab , got my wife and kids to counseling , got them the help that they needed . But while I was in rehab my counselor knew I was in a safe place because he knew I was suicidal . I'd already started having suicidal ideations . I'd already thought about probably three different ways I could take my life and make it look like an accident . You know I was going to . I was even going to make my suicide look , you know , like an accident . Right , I'm going to go out as the ultimate coward . And so that's when you know . That's when he reported , you know what had happened , and so that's when he reported what had happened .

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When I got out of rehab , I had to go to jail . I went to jail for I was only there for a couple of days , bonded out . We settled , worked it out . I pled guilty like , yes , this is what happened . And I had to do community service probation . It was my attorney told me , trent , this is the best , worst thing that's ever happened to you . And I said , yeah , yeah , I wanted to smack him and hug him all at the same time because I knew he was right . It was the most humiliating , devastating . I hadn't even had a speeding ticket Like I was that clean , but yet yet I had this secret life . And you know , the crazy thing is , drew , the harder I tried to be good , the harder I tried to beat this on my own , the worse it got , because that's how it works .

Speaker 2 21:44

One of the most profound things that I learned I did 90 days of clinical residential treatment specializing in sex addiction and porn addiction Saved my life . I believe it saved my life . I don't know that I would have made it . And one of the things that they taught me was that the opposite of addiction is not sobriety . The opposite of addiction is this it's connection . And I wanted it so bad , drew .

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I'd been wanting connection my whole life , since I was a boy . I wanted to connect with my mom , I wanted to connect with my dad , I wanted to connect with my brother , but it wasn't safe . It didn't feel safe , and so I learned so early and so young , to hide and isolate , and it's the only way that I found that actually worked . And porn was good to me . Porn was consistent . Porn never rejected me , porn never beat me , porn never hurt me like that . But yet it was like drinking poison , thinking it's going to make me feel better . What a setup right .

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And I made connections in rehab with other men that I didn't know was possible . I began to finally be vulnerable . I finally started letting people see the real me , and at this point it wasn't as hard because , you know , I lost everything . I lost it fast . When I got out of rehab , there was no more marriage . My wife wanted a divorce , absolutely justified in doing so . It was probably . I think it was one of the most courageous things that she ever did was to create that boundary and I'm proud of her for it . I respect her for it . She was way more mature than me , obviously .

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So I get out of rehab and everything's gone . I'm homeless now . I have no job , no career , no reputation , no image anymore . Like literally it's gone and I go back home to start over the place I never wanted to go back to but my mom had started to do some work . But my mom had started to do some work . So my mom comes to rehab and actually spends two or three sessions with me and my therapist in rehab and my mom finally gets vulnerable with me and I say , mom , I know you've got a story . That's when she finally tells me her story and it was horrific and she starts weeping and the therapist invites me to give empathy for my mom . I didn't want to . I was struggling . I'm still mad at you , right , but I humbled myself and I held my mom and I saw . I saw the little girl . I saw the little girl . I saw that little girl . They had been sexually abused and beaten and I began to learn how to forgive her and see her , and so my mom and I have a relationship today we've never had .

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Before I go back home , the house my parents grew up in , that I grew up in , had burned down , and so all that was left was the shop , the garage and a she shed that my dad had built for my mom , and so I used it as a tiny house . It was less than 400 square feet , and I moved into that little she shed , that tiny house . Mom and I made it a studio apartment , and that's where I started over by myself , and I believe that's where I actually grew up . That's where I became a man . All I had left was God . That was it . There was no more codependency . There was no more enmeshment . There was no more ministry . There was no more codependency . There was no more enmeshment . There was no more ministry . There was no more mask .

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I got completely exposed , terrified , you know , for a guy who's hid and isolated his whole life , and then you put the spotlight on him . I thought that would kill me , but it didn't , and so that's where I learned to grow up and to learn who am I . I used to actually ask God , hey , god , if I wasn't in ministry right now , would I even be reading this , would I be studying this , would I care ? And I remember being in that tiny house and hearing God's voice in my spirit saying hey , trent , remember when you used to ask me that ? And he said Well , guess what ? Now we get to find out . Now we get to find out who you actually are , because every God that you ever had in your life is gone now . Now we get to find out .

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And in that moment I felt two things . One , my darkness , reared up and it said you know what , trent ? Yeah , you've lost everything . So , what the hell ? You can go do whatever you want to do . Now , trent , there's no reason for you to be good anymore . So why don't you just go ahead and go on out there ? Why don't you just suck it up , man ? Like just take everything this world has got to offer you , because you know that's what you've been wanting to do anyway . And now you can , trent , like just go for it , man . And in that moment I felt that and it terrified me because I knew . I knew what that would do to me and I knew the more damage that that would cause to the people that I say , that I loved and that's when I literally got on my face , literally got on my face and started weeping and I asked God for help , genuinely asked him for help in a way that I never had before , I think it was my true moment of humility .

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That was on my terms , between me and God , and that was it terms between me and God , and that was it . There was no other reason , because all the reasons were gone and that's what I believe I actually surrendered to him and to his way of being and living and trusting , and it terrified me , but I got up and I tried to do the next right thing . I got up and I tried to do the next good thing and I ended up getting four different jobs , working five days a week to pay child support , to do my best to take care of them the best that I could , and I had lots of help .

Embracing Vulnerability and Finding Freedom

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One of the most amazing things that happened was that there was actually a couple from the church that I planted that came to see me while I was in rehab . I didn't want to see them , I didn't want anybody to see me , but they wanted to see me .

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And it was life-changing .

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When I came out into the room with my therapist and here's this young couple . They came to see me . Like you want to see me ? I'm in rehab . Like I've betrayed you , I'm a fraud , I'm a fake . I've betrayed you , I'm a fraud , I'm a fake . And they just wanted to be with Trent . You know what they said to me ? They said , trent , we like this version of you better . I'm like what the crap Like ? Are you kidding me ? They saw the real Trent and they still wanted him life changing . And that is what still changes my life today . Again , because that's all I get , drew , that's all we get . Man is one day . That's all we get .

Speaker 2 30:07

I choose to be scared and to do it afraid , and so that's how I live my life . Now . You know , when I do these intensives with these men , almost every month with Dr Bommack , I share one of the worst parts of my story . You know that I hate sharing , but I share it anyway and I'm always scared . I'm always scared that you know that there's . You know God's going to reject me , but you know it's crazy . I don't think it's happened yet . You know . I mean , there are . You know there are people out there that you know that probably still hate me because you know I caused a lot of damage . I hurt a lot of people because of my position and the power that I held , my position and the power that I held . But there's a lot of people that have come toward me and who still want me and be in relationship with me . And so when I share my story with these men at this intensive to start off with , to model vulnerability it's still good for me and that's what God uses .

Speaker 2 31:10

You know , the very story drew that I hated him for is the story now that he uses . And I was vulnerable with my dad . You know my dad found out about my story . His first response was oh , not Trent , he's my perfect son , mission accomplished , but such bullshit , right . And so he looked at me before he died . He said , trent , he said you're more ready for ministry now than you've ever been before in your life . And all I could do was cry because that season I couldn't see it . You know , couldn't see it , but he did , he knew , and so I shared some things with my dad . That was scary and hard for me and he just loved me . You know , he just loved me . He gave me the safety I always wanted and that's a gift . You know , a lot of guys still don't have that today . Still don't get that .

Speaker 2 32:12

You know my dad wouldn't share his story . I invited him in . I was like Dad , I know you got a story , what's your story ? In my classic dad fashion , he goes well , I'm just as mean as the next fella , and that's all there is to it . That was it . I was pissed . I was like all of my shit's out there now , man , like , and that's , that's all you're going to give me . That was it . But he said a lot , and that one thing . You know , what did he say ? He said , Trent , I'm not better than you , I'm just as mean as the next fella . Trent , I got a story too . I'm not going to share it with you , okay , because he wouldn't , he didn't , but I'll take it . And then he died .

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Six months later and I still miss my dad . So now I choose to live as a free man Nothing to prove , nothing to prove Nothing , to hide , nothing to lose Freedom .

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Nothing to prove Nothing , to hide Nothing , to lose Freedom . And that's how I choose to live today as a free man , broken , messy , with a shitty story , but turns out that's all God ever wanted Was for me to give him what I had . And only God , only God can take my shit and make and grow such beautiful things from it . It's amazing . It's like I know who I am and I feel like I was made for this and for this work . It scares me . Every time I get a new client I'm scared because I feel so responsible , you know , to care for them and help them . But if I'll just stay vulnerable , if I'll be vulnerable and continue to humble myself , then God does for me what I could never do for myself .

Speaker 1 34:31

And I'm grateful . Trent , thank you so much for your vulnerability . We have some guys listening to this who may have shared some of their story , but there are still certain parts that are hiding . Oh yeah , some things we've never told anyone .

Speaker 2 34:55

Yeah .

Speaker 1 34:56

Some things we've never told the person we love the most . Yeah , what would you like to say to the man who is scared of being vulnerable ?

Speaker 2 35:08

Yeah , that if you're waiting till the fear dissipates before you will act , then you're going to die alone . The only way that I've learned to do this is that you have to do it afraid , and that's you know . If you weren't afraid , then you wouldn't need courage . If you're not afraid , then it wouldn't be very brave . So there is no vulnerability without fear . So the very fact that you're afraid is actually what makes it vulnerable . So you're going to have to make a choice You're going to have to jump or you're going to have to stay a coward . So what Dr Baldwin has taught me is that you only have two choices you can be a fool or you can be a coward . Those are your only two choices Be a fool or a coward . Which one are you going to choose ? Take a risk and be a fool .

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I believe it's greater to take a risk and face rejection than to stay the coward and hide and actually have a fake sense of belonging and connection , because you're still completely alone . And actually it's worse . When you're vulnerable with someone , you're giving them a gift , you're giving them clarity . You're saying , hey , this is the real me , and now you get to decide what you want to do with me . You can accept me or you can reject me . We can connect or you can walk away , but hey , it's okay because I'm already okay .

Speaker 2 36:48

You know , Jesus modeled that for us , right ? I mean , was there anybody more masculine or more secure than Jesus ? He literally lays it out there this is who I am , this is what I offer , and yet he let people walk away from him . He didn't run after them , he didn't chase them , he didn't beg them no . Why ? Because he was already enough , he didn't need him . He didn't beg him no why ? Because he was already enough . He didn't need them . He was offering a gift . And so , when we can walk in that same sense of masculinity and that strength of clarity , this is the real me . So up to you to decide what you do with it . But hey , be free , because I don't need you , I'm already enough , but I offer a connection with you . If you choose it , that'll change your life , that'll set you free .

Speaker 1 37:47

Amen Trent . What is your favorite thing about freedom from porn ? Trent ? What is your favorite ?

Speaker 2 37:52

thing about freedom from porn . Life , man , life . I feel like I'm learning . You know I've learned to live again . I'm still taking risks . You know I get to take , like healthy , fun risks . Now that don't take from me , you know . So instead of looking at porn and masturbating and sneaking around right , I can suit up and get on my dirt bike , man , and line up with these other guys and go through trees , you know , on a motorcycle and wreck and get up and go again and

Embracing Risk and Living Fully

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do it .

Speaker 2 38:27

Afraid . I had two goals . I told my wife . I said number one no injuries . Number two I just want to finish the race . She goes , good goals , let's do it . I'm in my second marriage , she's amazing . And so I didn't finish the race because I ran into a freaking tree and blew out my right radiator on my motorcycle . But I didn't get injured . So I'll take it and I'm going to do another one . Drew and I get nervous thinking about it . But you know what ? That's how I want to live . I don't want to be a coward anymore . I want to do scary things and I don't want to do them afraid , because that's life . That's life . There is no relationship without risk . There's no life without risk . Right . Where reason drowns , faith must swim . There's no life without faith . You want to live ? Then jump and do it afraid and leave the results to God . That's living , brother . That's living .

Speaker 1 39:33

That's so good man . As we say at Husband Material , take a redemptive risk . I like that . Trent , thanks so much for being with us .

Speaker 2 39:44

Brother , thank you , this was an honor . Yeah , it still scares me and I'm so glad that I was here and that I have the opportunity to share my story again , in hopes that other men will see that , hey , you're not alone and you're not unique , you're not special , you're just another bozo on the planet , man with a story . So , hey , come join humanity , there's life here .

Speaker 1 40:12

It was beautiful to witness your vulnerability and your tears and your joy all together , god is good man .

Speaker 2 40:20

He's truly a good God .

Speaker 1 40:23

Guys , you can find Trent's information down in the description for this episode . If you want to connect with him and always remember you are God's beloved son In you , he is well pleased .