Speaker 1: 0:31

Welcome to the Husband Material podcast, where we help Christian men outgrow porn. Why? So you can change your brain, heal your heart and save your relationship. My name is Drew Boa and I'm here to show you how let's go. Hey, my name is Drew Boa. I'm the founder of Husband Material, where I help men outgrow porn. Name is Drew Boa. I'm the founder of Husband Material, where I help men outgrow porn.

Speaker 1: 0:57

Today's episode is part two of how to transform your triggers using the floss method, one of the most powerful tools I have developed to help you gain lasting freedom from porn and other unwanted sexual behavior.

Speaker 1: 1:08

This is actually a demonstration that was recorded live at the recent HMA, in a Day workshop where three certified husband material coaches come and help me work through one of my triggers. It was very vulnerable to share all this and, at the same time, I wanted to take this risk, both for my own healing and so that you can witness what it looks like when your triggers are no longer threats and enemies, but opportunities to heal. What a beautiful experience this was, and it's actually a preview of what we do every week in Husband Material Academy on Trigger Tuesdays. We only open up Husband Material Academy twice a year, once in January and once in July. So if you are interested, go to joinhmacom and I would love to do this work with you, together with our team of coaches, and right now you get to sit in on it and see it for yourself. Enjoy the episode.

Speaker 2: 2:02

And now I'm going to welcome some of our husband material coaches because they are going to be coaching me as I process a story from my childhood that's related to my triggers, something that has shaped my sexuality. You guys meet Andrew Lloyd. He is a pastor and professional coach who lives in the Pacific Northwest and he is the leader of our morning Trigger Tuesday call, where we do this type of story work every Tuesday morning, and we also have Juan Mejia, hey Juan, hey Drew.

Speaker 3: 2:45

It's good to see you.

Speaker 2: 2:46

You too. Juan is a licensed professional counselor in Atlanta, georgia, and he is leading our very first HMA coaching call in Spanish, martes de Madures.

Speaker 3: 3:04

You got it right, martes de Madures. Okay, the Spanish is pretty good. Big, more Spanish, yeah.

Speaker 2: 3:11

Yeah. So Juan also leads private husband material small groups as well. Also, we have Rocky Pizer hey Rocky, hey, awesome. So Rocky is a pastoral counselor and coach in California and he's leading a new HMA coaching call on Thursdays called Identity Thursdays, because we know how important our identity is to this recovery process and that's why I end every episode and every lesson saying you are God's beloved son and you he's well-pleased. So all of these guys are leading HMA calls every week.

Speaker 2: 3:49

There's a great menu of different options for what you can attend, based on your time zone and your schedule. This is so cool that in this event it's not just me, it's our whole team coming together and really demonstrating what all this looks like, because it sounds nice in theory, but when you actually do the work and you witness others doing the work, it just clicks, it kind of sinks in in a different way. What we do at HMA is really more caught than taught. So I'm hoping that as we do this demonstration of Trigger Tuesday, of story work and processing our childhood experiences, that you'll get a sense of what it's all about. Andrew, you ready to take it from here?

Speaker 4: 4:41

Let's do it. Like Drew said earlier, this is kind of a chance to really dive deeper into our stories, and Drew has brought a story today that we're going to get to engage with. Drew, how are you doing as we're about to enter this time and space together today?

Speaker 2: 4:57

I just felt a change come over my whole body.

Speaker 4: 5:00

Oh, okay, gotcha.

Speaker 2: 5:01

Where are you?

Speaker 4: 5:02

feeling it right now.

Speaker 2: 5:04

Kind of in the back of my head here and in my chest it's like a chill, coldness.

Speaker 4: 5:10

Okay, gotcha, that's really important to note. You know, something that's really helpful with this experience is when we get too dysregulated, it keeps us from being in the story. So naming that's huge. Why don't we all just take a breath together before we even begin, would that be all right? And out through our mouth For good measure, let's just do another one In through the nose and out through the mouth. That's just giving us a chance to tune into our bodies before we even enter the story, which stories can be pretty dysregulating. Does that help you feel a little more connected to just breathe and kind of name that in the moment?

Speaker 2: 6:04

yeah, and it's kind of scary being in front of so many people.

Speaker 4: 6:08

Sorry, it is. I feel it too. I feel it in in my chest right now. So you are not alone at all. I'm feeling that as well. Thanks, yeah, so typically what we do when we engage these stories is we'll have a prayer for the person sharing the story. We want to just cover this in grace, because our stories are not linear, they're kind of all over the place, but that's also beautiful. After that prayer is done, we'll have Drew read his story and then we're going to give a moment of silence after he reads his story, because we want to honor what has just been said and it's helpful to just kind of give a little bit of space so that we can tune into ourselves and create a little bit of space to honor what has just been said. Drew, do you feel all right to enter that process?

Speaker 5: 6:57

Yes.

Speaker 4: 6:59

All right, rocky or Juan, would one of you guys be able to pray for Drew today as we begin this process?

Speaker 5: 7:07

I can do that.

Speaker 4: 7:09

Awesome. Thanks, Rocky.

Speaker 5: 7:10

Father God, I'm so grateful you are calling us your beloved sons and you accept us as your sons, and so today I ask you to activate your Holy Spirit in this time together that will guide and direct, bring compassion and wisdom and breakthrough. In the name of Jesus, amen.

Speaker 4: 7:32

Amen. Whenever you're ready, Drew, feel free to dive into your story today.

Speaker 2: 7:38

Following the floss method. There are a lot of different fear reactions connected to this story, but I think the biggest lie I've identified is I can't count on anyone. No one is really there for me. In the summer of 2003, I was 11 years old. For the first time I spent multiple nights far away from home when my parents sent me to golf camp. I didn't really like golf, I wasn't very good at it, but I was so excited for a week of sleepovers with my two closest friends from school, ryan and Nick. I arrived at camp in a baggy polo shirt that was way too big for me, struggling to carry a huge golf bag on my narrow shoulders, my skinny arms In this scary new environment. I stayed close to Ryan and Nick because I knew that, no matter what happened with the other kids at camp, I knew I could count on these two for support.

Speaker 2: 8:39

Golf is an individual sport, but we felt like a team, and we were not the only team. On the first day of camp, we encountered Katie and Megan O'Callaghan, a cute pair of cousins, both with braces on their teeth, slightly older than us, more physically developed than the other girls in our cohort. Megan O'Callaghan was tall, blonde, thin and about as tall as me, and whatever hormones I had flowing through my 11-year-old body immediately activated in her presence. Once my initial anxiety wore off, I settled into life at camp, felt more comfortable approaching the O'Callaghans. Ryan, nick and I were giving them tips on how to swing a golf club. Katie O'Callaghan often missed the ball, completely erupting in laughter and making us feel like pro golfers. In comparison, we played more than golf.

Speaker 2: 9:28

One day we went to a sand pit to play volleyball against a cabin of girls. The O'Callaghans were not present. This should be easy, I thought. The volleyball net hung low in the middle, giving a tall boy like me a chance to spike the ball without difficulty. I towered over my teammates. I took full advantage of this opportunity because, unlike golf, volleyball gave me a chance to truly shine. But something felt awkward. Girls on the other side of the net seemed less than impressed. Even as I dominated the game, they declined eye contact Occasionally. I heard my own team giggling behind me. I shrugged it off. I assumed they were just reacting to my sweaty celebrations, but I was trying too hard.

Speaker 2: 10:13

At the end of the game I turned to my teammates. Ryan and Nick had their backs to me. What is going on. One boy, noah, had the courage to make eye contact. I looked at him with confusion and he pointed at my pants. I looked down and immediately crumpled to the ground. There was a huge hole in my crotch, offering a wide-open view of my testicles and my penis to all the other kids. But no one said anything, not even Ryan and Nick.

Speaker 2: 10:47

With a dark red face and twisted-up legs, I hobbled back to the cabin like a wounded dog. Meanwhile, ryan and Nick fell over laughing under the shade of nearby trees. Just a few minutes ago I towered above them. Now I was crawling on the ground at their feet. Back in the cabin, cruel laughter continued. I actually joined in. Why not? Better to entertain Ryan and Nick as an insider than to suffer alone as an outsider for the rest of the week? Maybe I wasn't on their team anymore, but at least I could be the mascot making them laugh. Little did I know just how useful I had suddenly become to them.

Speaker 2: 11:26

Next day after lunch, ryan, nick and I walked out of the dining hall, accompanied by the O'Callagans, and suddenly Ryan grabbed my favorite red hat off of my head and threw it over a fence into a nearby tennis court. I ran to retrieve it, interpreting this as a typical middle school prank. But when I returned, the group was gone. The four of them left me behind. They looked like two happy couples on a double date. I did the math their teams of two had merged into a foursome and I was the fifth wheel For the rest of the week. Megan O'Callaghan was no longer interested in talking with me. Her face changed. I felt unwelcome, disappointed and confused.

Speaker 2: 12:08

A few months later, back at school, I found out why Ryan and Nick had shared the story of my sexual exposure at the volleyball court with the O'Callagans behind my back. They betrayed me. When my parents picked me up on the last day of camp in the car on the way home, I told my mom what happened. My genitals were accidentally exposed to an entire cabin of girls and my own cabin Facing forward in the car, with her back to me. My mother scolded me for not being more careful. That's why I keep telling you to wear boxers under your pants. I stared at the floor of the car in silence and did not bring it up again.

Speaker 4: 12:57

Thank you for sharing your story, drew. What's coming up for you as you just kind of kind of sit after getting, after getting that out?

Speaker 2: 13:08

It's so clear. I couldn't count on anyone. I couldn't count on my friends, couldn't even count on my mom, and I was already afraid of girls. But this just drove my fear even deeper, just always feeling like something's off and they're not safe.

Speaker 3: 13:30

And Drew, what does your body want to do right now?

Speaker 2: 13:34

Part of me wants to cry. Part of me wants to get angry at Ryan and Nick. Another part of me wants to redo how my mom responded to me, instead of just continuing to drive the car like stop, get out, come close, make eye contact and just say I'm so sorry drews, you shared this.

Speaker 5: 14:02

uh, you know I like to listen to stories and see myself as the same age, like I'm just kind of tagging along. So I put myself at that 11-year-old age, thought how would I experience this? And I just sensed how important when you were 11, having friends and relationships were to you. That was huge. That's a big deal, because you always feel like you're on the verge of being a loner or not being accepted or you're not part of the group. And right at the beginning of the story you said, hey, I don't really like golf, but I'm going to be with my friends, so therefore I'm going to do it. That's the important thing. That's the reason you went. Yes.

Speaker 2: 14:48

Friends do it, that's the important thing.

Speaker 5: 14:49

That's the reason you went. Yes, friends, yes, experiences 100. And then I was looking that, the emotions that you shared and you know, and I would imagine that you were just really excited to make new memories and have a great time and be goofy, be an 11 year old yeah, yeah the thing with the shorts.

Speaker 5: 15:06

When that hit, that is such a trauma, is such a tearing of. Everything that you were hoping for went from hope to despair. I felt like there was just a despair, and first of all that, oh my god, they're seeing my most private parts and you're at an age where everybody grows differently. Some of them are already fully mature. I know at that age I wasn't, and so that's even more embarrassing and everything falls apart. You have nobody to help, support you. In fact, they did just the opposite and I felt a little 11-year-old. I did this to be with friends and now I'm just have to hang out here until I go home and yeah, right I, I was stuck, I was trapped at that.

Speaker 5: 15:51

Yeah yeah, at least when I go home, somebody loves me and cares for me but, no, but, no but the first response was you should have. Yeah, you should have, and yeah should it all over me yeah and no wonder you couldn't count on anybody, and I just wanted to have great compassion for you, like like a buddy, and I thought I wish I'd been there to hug you, love you, and today that's what I'm doing with your little one, thank you. How are you responding to the 11-year-old Drew today?

Speaker 2: 16:32

I mean, I had this thought of like did this really happen? It almost feels like how could this have happened? But it did happen. I feel like in this moment, but it did happen.

Speaker 5: 16:57

I feel like in this moment I'm bringing him out, to share him with all of you, and trusting that I can count on you to be true friends. Thank you for trusting us and to recognize the strength that your 11-year-old had to make it through that week.

Speaker 4: 17:08

Yeah, this little guy really experienced what humans have been avoiding for centuries, you know getting expelled from the group. There weren't necessarily lions that were coming after you, but there might as well have what it should have been. It's, you know, total social outcast, with them literally turning their backs to you and casting you out. And the bravery of this young boy to be looked upon today by other people risking that redemptively, that's a big deal.

Speaker 2: 17:43

That's a big deal, thank you. I feel honored by that. I also am aware now that I've processed this story and told it a few times. This is not the first time I'm dealing with this one Like. They betrayed me not because I was inferior, which is what I had believed I was inferior, which is what I had believed. They did this to me out of their own envy and insecurity. I guess what I'm saying is it was actually my beauty and strength that prompted them to do this.

Speaker 5: 18:26

And one of your superpowers you're taller than everybody else. You still are Right, right, but it's like in the middle of that.

Speaker 2: 18:32

Yeah, I mean, I don't feel like it. I often forget how big and tall I am because experiences like this cause me to feel so small. I see the fawn reaction as well. I need to try to make them laugh. I need to please them. I I'm trying, I'm like just trying to get back whatever scraps I can salvage from the friendship and through.

Speaker 3: 18:55

There's. There's obviously so much, so much beauty and strength in who you are. But before maybe we we focus on that, I would like to say a little bit more with, yeah, the hurt that you experienced. I heard it in your voice several times and it seems like there were several instances in which you experienced that betrayal. Right, you started off this story with so much excitement, right, so much of that desire for friendship and connection with your friends, and then this moment happened. First, they turned their backs on you. Then they didn't say anything when you were exposed. Right, instead of being kind and loving friends and letting you know what was happening. Right, they didn't say anything in that moment. After that, they were laughing. Right, they were making fun of you, and not only that, as they were making jokes. Then they shared that information with these girls, right, and left you behind. It's not just one act of betrayal. It's betrayal after betrayal, after betrayal after betrayal.

Speaker 2: 20:17

Yeah, that's hitting me right now. Thank you for bringing me back.

Speaker 3: 20:25

And Drew, you also mentioned the safety right, the lack of safety with them, but then with your mom right. Part of our trauma is not only what we suffer, what we experience, but doing it in isolation and being alone in our pain, and it feels like again you were so alone in that moment and this person who was supposed to hear you attune to you, be present in your pain, was not able or willing to do that for you and with you.

Speaker 2: 21:04

And yeah, that sounds extremely, extremely painful yeah, in the ryan and nick thing lasted for a week. But that response from my mom was like every day I feel my chest tightening just in response to that.

Speaker 4: 21:27

I also am curious about where your dad is at in the story. You know someone who maybe has the opportunity to speak healing words about you and your masculinity. I'm just curious about that absence.

Speaker 2: 21:44

I don't know where he is, but he's not. He's not there. May have been that my mom was the only person to pick me up from camp, but he was more absent in my growing up as well, Working all the time.

Speaker 5: 22:01

One of the areas that we've come to understand is that when something happens that's sexual to us or embarrassing to us, there's shame attached to it. That shame can carry on for a long time, and we're talking about your genitals being exposed. Deep personal question how have you been able to work on the shame that is attached to your the very part of the maleness that we tend to struggle with with your, your genitals and the exposure and everything that happened afterwards? Is there more work that still needs to be done and sexually.

Speaker 2: 22:43

I became very, very flamboyant and flaunting my naked body in the college dorm where I went after moving away from home. I landed on the naked floor at this Christian college and quickly became like the most naked person. It was like yeah, like I'm going to, I'm going to show you my private parts.

Speaker 5: 23:13

Sure.

Speaker 2: 23:14

You have a choice now.

Speaker 5: 23:16

Before you didn't have a choice.

Speaker 4: 23:17

Yeah, you're in control.

Speaker 2: 23:20

Right. But none of that was none of that was going through my head, right, I was it. Just to me it was just like, yeah, I'm proud of my body, I'm proud of my parts, and I used to even walk in front of windows at night, knowing that people out there could probably see, be like, well, who cares, I don't care. And looking back I see that that was, that was the little boy. That was the 11 year old, and I'm not glorifying this. This is exhibitionism Like this. You know, this was, this was not okay, what I was doing. Yet it makes sense. I've actually never shared this before. I even made a video of myself naked and sent it to another guy on the floor. I literally created porn and I remember like deleting it. But now, looking back it like I sent this cause, I wanted him to like me. I think a part of me was still trying to resolve this, this shame, this humiliation around my, my privates.

Speaker 4: 24:39

You mentioned um a couple of the relational lies. Can't count on anyone. No one was really there for me. Are there lies around this humiliation that were were affecting you and the little boy in those ways?

Speaker 2: 24:54

I don't know. I think I remember the expression on those girls faces on the volleyball court. It was an expression of like disgust, so maybe I'm disgusting. And then in college, trying to be like, no, I'm not disgusting. There was a moment actually when, when I finally discovered this story and I realized, oh my gosh, I'm reenacting my trauma when I, when I exposed myself like this, I realized that and I first had a relationship with 11-year-old Drew who got exposed like this my heart went out to him and for the first time, I felt self-respect to put on clothes. In those moments I am not going to put you through that again and there was a feeling of like you're worth more than this and you don't need to do that. No, like kind of what my friends should have done, like yeah, like let's get some clothes on you.

Speaker 4: 26:03

So for me that actually surround you, cover, cover, you offer you protection when you needed it and you gave that.

Speaker 3: 26:11

You gave that to that boy, that's it yeah, and andrew, there's a character in your story that I don't. I don't think we we should move past him, and that's noah, right, yes? The boy that had big courage, yeah right, to look you in the eyes right and offer that gesture of kindness to you yeah, I've never forgotten his name because of what he did there. He clothed me yeah he did what your friends should have done he did what my friends should have done.

Speaker 4: 26:49

Yeah, man, oh, he's the only person offering kindness to me the name noah means rest and you know I do hear kind of this hypervigilance in some of the lies that have been told in this story. And even when you're betrayed by all those close to you, there is a character in there offering you some form of kindness and rest, even if it's the littlest bit.

Speaker 5: 27:19

That's fascinating because you know there is a story about Noah's sons. The youngest son found Noah and his dad drunk and naked.

Speaker 2: 27:27

That's right yeah.

Speaker 5: 27:29

And he went and told his older brothers and they walked backwards and covered him up, their dad up, and that covering is so powerful.

Speaker 2: 27:39

Yeah, because I do feel like that's what I needed. Yeah, the covering and Joey's asking where was Jesus in the story, and maybe he was in Noah. I feel like Jesus is in you guys right now.

Speaker 5: 27:53

Yeah, and suffering with little Drew, the 11-year-old.

Speaker 2: 28:00

I feel like I can see him there with me. Yeah, on the ground. Yes, I feel like I can see him there with me on the ground. Yes, he knows what it's like to be sexually exposed and humiliated on the cross.

Speaker 5: 28:25

And now I have a picture of him joining me there on the ground and then raising me up like he was raised and clothed in his righteousness.

Speaker 2: 28:29

He's protective of me you see yourself responding to that protection yeah, but the phrase that comes to mind is I'm like I'm hiding in him, you know. Yet also safe to share this, yeah.

Speaker 4: 28:46

I'm lifting you up. You're both covered and celebrated. Both realities are true in that image.

Speaker 5: 28:52

Yes.

Speaker 3: 28:56

That's good and I don't know how much time we have left, but if you can look at our faces, you can see Rocky, andrew, me. Hopefully you can see in our faces that there's people that you can count on right. There's people that you can feel safe with, that you're not alone.

Speaker 2: 29:24

I receive that. Yes, that's good. Thanks, juan I. I love that. I feel that really strongly right now. I can feel the truth of that, and I also feel the truth that there's people I can't count on there are other people who I can't count on, and that's true, that is very true, yeah as one was sharing.

Speaker 5: 29:46

I realized these become sacred places when our stories it's. You just moved through the floss process. You described the sadness, the sorrow into surrender and these stories become these places where of worship and knowing that there's been redemption in an origin story that was so painful.

Speaker 3: 30:18

Yes.

Speaker 5: 30:18

I just love that and we get to share in that. Drew, this is powerful, this is community.

Speaker 2: 30:24

Yes, amen, sadness, sadness, the surrender.

Speaker 4: 30:32

I kind of wanted to jump quickly into the, into the surrender of the, the truth part of it, and juan was like I don't want to skip over this you know to grieve a little bit yeah, yeah well, and I'm curious too, drew um kind of working through that process and working through that you know this is a not just an emotionally charged story but also a sexually charged story you know kind of the nature of it and stuff um, how are you doing in terms of thinking about, like your arousal around this story, if it has had that kind of experience or if that's affecting you now? I'm just kind of curious as to, after moving through the process, but what's kind of going on with that?

Speaker 2: 31:12

yeah, thanks for asking. That's something we often talk about on trigger tuesday. And for me, the o'callaghan's were like my first attractions. I guess like these were the first somewhat sexually developed, my first attractions. I guess Like these were the first somewhat sexually developed girls that I was really really turned on by, and and they both have braces. I think there's a lot more underneath my fetish for braces, but this is certainly part of it. Was was them specifically. And then also something I'm continuing to learn about is is why I get fixated on on humiliation. So it's really arousing to me in a fantasy when the person is being humiliated in some way, oftentimes through getting braces on their teeth. That was really something that would skyrocket my sexual urges and fantasies was like when someone gets braces on their teeth or someone gets glasses on their face or there's some kind of like thing that makes them feel shame about their face or shame about themselves.

Speaker 5: 32:34

And that's directly connected to your arousal template in some way, or has been.

Speaker 2: 32:39

Yeah, okay, and this story is so humiliating, yeah, and, as I said, my mom's response to me was recurring like, and my dad too, all like very shaming and I, you know, as juan was saying, like being betrayed over and over and over. There's a sense in my, in my fantasies, of like, if somebody gets humiliated over and over, that's even more arousing. So if somebody gets braces and they have to get braces again later and they have to get braces again later, it's like that just continues to raise it up for me.

Speaker 4: 33:16

To use one of the tools that you presented. You know, I could see on one hand how, when that stuff comes up, it'd be so easy to feel shame, self-disgust, really turn in on ourselves. Oh yeah, but that's an opportunity like you shared earlier. Hello, little boy, yeah, there you. There you are, and we even kind of have a story to point back to to say, man, let me join you in that place so you're not alone. You know, that's that's, it's a trailhead. It doesn't have to be a tyrant.

Speaker 2: 33:45

Amen, yes, isn't it wild that these things are in us, even when we don't realize it. I was like I don't know why.

Speaker 5: 34:01

I don't know why it's arousing or more arousing when certain things happen. Well, we've been taught not to engage in that, like one of the comments in the session before this that you know flee from immorality. Well, this is the process of doing that. You have to go to the genesis of it and sit with the Lord, sit with people who have Jesus in them. This is why I love husband materials. This is why I'm a coach with you. The rest of you guys is we get to do this.

Speaker 2: 34:30

Yeah, it's so good. It's so good, and I hope everyone here gets a chance to experience it in some way.

Speaker 4: 34:38

Drew, do you feel like this is an okay stopping point to kind of see how people have been engaging and what's been going on in the chat?

Speaker 2: 34:46

Yes, you guys gave so many great comments here.

Speaker 4: 34:50

And that's just one of the cool parts of trigger Tuesday is we, you know, tell the story, we talk about how that's tied to our arousal, our sexuality, and we always end working through the comments because in many of these stories, good parts of us were cursed by others by lies what, what have you by lies, what have you? And we're actually we're reversing the curse in this moment, which is something you'll hear a lot at Husband Material. We are participating together on the screen in the chat. We are reversing this curse in Drew's life and in the way God works. He does that in our stories while we're hearing other people's stories too.

Speaker 5: 35:28

Yes.

Speaker 2: 35:30

Man, Thank you for all of your affirmation. Ooh Tyler says Drew, what truth do I choose to believe as a result of telling this story? Man, I don't know. I can count on some men who have earned my trust.

Speaker 4: 35:49

I'm not disgusting, brad says to me. Part of humiliation is projecting my pain and humiliation on others. I'm desperately trying to feel vindication and, at my core, wanting acceptance. Wow, what an insight, brad. That's good martin says the more vulnerability, the more healing for you and others. How strange it might sound, ah, so true though okay, that's big.

Speaker 2: 36:12

That's big, yeah, because exposing myself used to be part of my sexual brokenness and now exposing myself and vulnerability is part of my healing so good yeah and it was just the little boy was trying to do it the only way he knew how.

Speaker 4: 36:35

You know, the little boy is not bad, that's just all he knew and he just needed. He just needed present day drew to say no, no, no, we just need to do it a little different. We just need to expose ourselves in a way that brings about healing yeah, expose my heart because I don't have to expose my body.

Speaker 5: 36:54

Yeah, yeah, yeah, a safe environment right, right and another.

Speaker 2: 36:59

I think another redemptive piece for me is like I've been drawn to humiliation, but now I'm a shame breaker.

Speaker 3: 37:09

You, definitely are.

Speaker 2: 37:12

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 37:13

Drew is not shamed, he is the shame breaker.

Speaker 3: 37:17

Oh yeah, what a way of okay, that's my truth.

Speaker 2: 37:21

That's my truth.

Speaker 5: 37:23

Yes, that's the process.

Speaker 4: 37:28

We have to go. Everybody's popping in. Shame breaker, amen, praise God. Shame breaker, oh yeah. Needs to be a t-shirt. That's the process. We have to go, everybody's popping it. Shame breaker, amen, praise god.

Speaker 3: 37:31

shame breaker, oh yeah, needs to be a t-shirt for you.

Speaker 2: 37:35

Same breaker okay, okay henry says break the shame to break the chain, you know. Break to break the chains of our sexual attachments. Yeah, you know, to be a little bit more nuanced, probably more accurate to say like shame healer, but I like the breaker because we're breaking the power of it. My shame is a part of me. That's welcome here, and it's actually trying to help me heal. But it's become infected because it was never processed and so now we're going in and taking out the toxic shame. I'm just amazed at how this all turned out.

Speaker 4: 38:17

I didn't really know how it was gonna go because sometimes these stories don't don't tie up nicely in one session, and that's okay too. And even coming into this, one of the things drew said was it might not have a pretty bow on it, and that's okay, because healing kind of goes like this, you know.

Speaker 2: 38:38

Jason says. As I watched Drew's story and some of the things he experienced, I started to realize, with some pain for myself, how many things have hurt me in the past that I haven't really dealt with. When we do this, everybody gets something out of it. So let's do some questions here and I'm going to allow all of our coaches to answer the questions, but first just thank you guys so much.

Speaker 3: 39:04

Thank you.

Speaker 2: 39:06

Good to be with you guys. Juan, could you pray for us?

Speaker 3: 39:10

Dear Father, I want to thank you for giving Drew the courage to step into this story of pain, hurt, humiliation, for meeting him there and for inviting us into this process with him, and for inviting us into this process with him. I pray that all of these truths that you have reminded him of, that they will continue to resonate in his heart, in his mind, in his brain, and that he would often be reminded of his identity in you, and that he has people that he can trust, people that are safe and, even though not everyone is, there's people in his life that he can count on. Thank you for this truth and thank you for what you're doing in our lives and the healing that you're bringing to all of us.

Speaker 2: 40:04

It's in your name, Jesus, that we pray Amen.

Speaker 4: 40:15

Let's go to some questions, and I see a few questions in here specifically asking how do you write this story? How do you begin to write these stories?

Speaker 2: 40:18

there's a couple couple of those questions I'm seeing in the questions and answers here yeah, well, hma will give you some guidance on how to write the stories and and we help you prepare, if you're going to do Trigger Tuesday in the hot seat, which is what I just did I was just in the hot seat you are going to get in the hot seat Henry Brown, our Director of Operations and Support, can help you write that story. We have a story work series that we did in April of this year where we answered questions like okay, what is story story work, how do you write a story like this? The allender center has really good resources with some quick answers. What would you guys say?

Speaker 4: 40:56

I would say don't worry so much about being um, factual, as much as writing down what's coming to you, because all stories are subjective and getting into what you're feeling, sensing experience, is one of the most important parts to embodying and healing it. So don't worry about being factual, but just write.

Speaker 2: 41:20

Yeah, because what matters is how you felt, not necessarily precisely what happened, but how you felt is what stays in your body.

Speaker 5: 41:30

So we have to get in touch with those feelings, even if it's not perfectly objective and once that flow starts, just write, just let the narrative flow and really honor your little guy that went through traumas, was brilliant and strong and brave and self-reliant and so many things that Jesus loves about him and it's important for us to embrace that one, that young one. He has a huge story to tell and you're the first one he wants to tell your adult self.

Speaker 2: 42:01

You guys are saying what if I don't remember much of my childhood? I don't remember my stories. Adam Young has a great podcast episode about that, called what If I Don't Remember Much of my Childhood, and he has a document about that on his website too, so you might want to check out what If I Don't Remember Much of my Childhood by Adam Young.

Speaker 3: 42:21

Yeah, and there is something that I have found that has been helpful for me and for several of my clients is looking back at pictures of of childhood. Right, it seems like there's there's something that at times gets unlocked when we, you know, when we see some of those pictures, like memories are easier to access, you know.

Speaker 2: 42:43

Absolutely, and that's why in Husband Material Academy we have you find a photo of yourself as a boy and spend time with it. In fact, we challenge you to make it the background of your phone. So look at this guy that's that's my like, probably 13 year old. Drew right there. So now it's it's prompting me to be present to him. When I look at my phone, seth says how many times do you go through these stories before you find the shame being healed or broken?

Speaker 4: 43:16

Be quite a lot, but part of the beautiful thing about that is that that means one of the kindest things you can do for another person is listen to the same story you've heard a million times, because just listening is engaging the healing process.

Speaker 2: 43:28

Yeah, that's so true, and I encourage you guys to hear that more as like an invitation that there's more healing rather than a burden of. Oh, I have to do this as an obligation.

Speaker 3: 43:46

And another thing is, you know, the way you process these stories is different too, so if you are telling the story and you're just in your head, that's not going to make as much of a difference as if you're able to really get into your heart and into your gut. And I think also it's not just the repetition of the storytelling, but the person that is listening to the story. Right, I think, when it comes to shame, there's two main components which is, in one hand, sharing a vulnerable way, but then there needs to be a person in front of you who is responding with kindness and empathy and, sadly, many of the stories that we have maybe told before, we haven't encountered that person in front of us. I think that's why this kind of work with a coach or maybe in a group can be very beneficial.

Speaker 2: 44:33

Jesse says do the trigger stories you break down with the floss method have to be inherently sexual or can they come from any part of your youth? They can come from any part of your youth. Edward is asking can we talk about how Trigger Tuesday was captured in what we just did? Yeah, I mean, we basically just did exactly what we went do on a Trigger Tuesday. Usually it's just the coach and just the man in the hot seat. However, the man in the hot seat can invite other HMA students to be present and supportive so that we have something like what you saw today.

Speaker 2: 45:05

So we might have 20 or 30 guys who are in the room, but they can't be seen or heard, and you know two to four on the screen. And we're also learning how to respond to each other with this same style of relating. So you notice that Rocky and Juan and Andrew, they were responding not just with words, but with their voice, with their face, with their heart, and so we're all learning how to do that. There are some recovery programs where they say you know, no crosstalk, Don't talk back to people who are sharing, and we say, well, yeah, don't give advice, Don't try to fix people, Don't try to spiritualize it, but learn how to help each other heal. So every Tuesday we've got a morning and an evening version of this. Rye is asking about false memories.

Speaker 2: 45:58

I mean that is a big question, but what we try to do every week is just honor the story that's in front of us. An anonymous person says it amazes me that Drew has told the story before, but there's still work to do. We can learn something new every time we go over a story. So true, yes.

Speaker 5: 46:13

Drew on the Q&A. When writing stories, it's better to focus on specific events, like you did here, or on general themes of childhood, especially if I'm starting out not really remembering many specific moments of hurt. For me, it's finding whatever narrative starts to come to you and go with that and even if it doesn't make sense at first, journal it, let it flow, let it come out, because you're partnering with God, god's work in your life to do this and he knows the story better than you and the path, the redemptive path, he will take you down.

Speaker 2: 46:48

He will take you down. Nick says that turning his temptations into a conversation with God has been massively helpful in healing. He says does HMA start more with the inner child than with God? And I think that's a great question. We really want to bring those two things together.

Speaker 4: 47:12

Sometimes the younger parts of us maybe have things over-spiritualized to keep us from feeling things oh just pray about it which was really someone not willing to engage with us super deeply. And so sometimes we have to build trust with that inner part to say, hey, we're here for you. And people maybe weaponized this, but that's not what Jesus wants to do right now. Jesus wants to get in and really do some healing. So we're kind of building trust and even that is breaking down some harms and hurts. That maybe happened in life too.

Speaker 2: 47:36

That's true. Some of us are survivors of spiritual abuse, and so starting with God doesn't always feel safe.

Speaker 4: 47:45

God's always in it, which is cool. You know, he knows, he knows and he's so patient and he's working with it, which is really he knows and he's so patient and he's working with it, which is really really cool. I think that's something HM highlights a lot.

Speaker 5: 47:57

Or we're taught to address God as God the Father, and our Father was cruel or mean abandoning, and God is nothing like that. So we have to get through that image that we have.

Speaker 2: 48:09

Cody says, as my counselor once said to me, Cody, you have a lot of work to do to scrub the face of your father and mother off of the face of God.

Speaker 5: 48:17

Yeah, that's a good point to praise.

Speaker 2: 48:19

All right, you guys ready for a spicy question? Mark is saying why does learning about this and facing it make me feel uncomfortable and a part of me, a small part of me, wants to act out. Thank you so much for sharing, thank you for your vulnerability. That's very normal and our goal at Husband Material is not to eliminate all triggers. You're going to get triggered in life and in recovery circles. It's going to happen. You're going to get triggered In life and in recovery circles. It's going to happen. We want to equip you with the support, the tools to be able to handle those triggers when they come up. And, just as we said today, I mean asking the question why is the right starting point? It's like hello childhood, and I think part of the reason why it can be arousing is maybe the little boy doesn't want to deal with these things, maybe it feels scary or threatening to him.

Speaker 3: 49:26

Maybe he's more comfortable not have that kind of like brain memory of several experiences of talking about this kind of topics openly with other people. Many of us did not experience like redemptive conversations about sex. So I can yeah, I can understand how it could be uncomfortable to even talk about sex in such an open and honest way like we do in hm even just naming.

Speaker 4: 49:55

I think naming that that's what your experience is as a real act of kindness to yourself and your body, as there's a lot of times, you know, we can recall our experiences and that kind of a trigger led to acting out or something, and we didn't even address it or name it. And so naming that is doing great kindness to your body, and so I just want to commend you for for for naming that. That's. That's really excellent work.

Speaker 2: 50:20

John says in the past I haven't been able to connect with a little boy. Today, for the first time, jesus met me in my most shameful place.

Speaker 5: 50:28

Yeah, yeah, that's why we are here I'm overwhelmed with gratitude towards these guys that have joined us today. And it questions the comments. The engagement engagement's huge and I just am so thankful that the engagement is so rich today.

Speaker 4: 50:52

Me too, I'm wearing my grateful, my grateful shirt. I didn't even mean to do it, but I second that, rocky. I'm just feeling really. I'm just feeling really grateful. Thank you all for your vulnerability. Thank you, drew, for your vulnerability with your story and seeing you guys in the chat, connecting with you guys in the chat. You guys are already doing some awesome work and just continuing to pave the way, way to go yeah, thank you.

Speaker 3: 51:17

Thank you everyone for being so, so present and so engaged and drew. Thank you for being so vulnerable, and that's one of the things that has. Yeah, yeah that I'm here for this. Thank you for who you are and how you're with us and, andrew Rocky, I'm blessed to be here with you guys. I love you and it's an honor, truly an honor.

Speaker 2: 51:42

Love you guys too, and thank you, Andrew, Juan and Rocky. Thank you so much for witnessing me and my story.

Speaker 1: 51:50

I am still in awe of that experience. How much love and goodness I received from these coaches and from the men who participated in all of this. If you would like to be a part of it, go to joinhmacom and always remember you are God's beloved son. In you he is well-pleased.