Can masturbation ever be neutral or healthy? In this episode, I'll explore complex moral questions about masturbation. Together with a live audience, we'll analyze 10 situations you may have never considered before:
You'll also hear insights about how to talk with children about masturbation, how to stop masturbating, and more.
Regardless of your particular view, this thought-provoking conversation will leave you with more curiosity, more compassion, less confusion, and less shame. Listen! You won't regret it.
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Welcome to the Husband Material podcast, where we help Christian men outgrow porn. Why? So you can change your brain, heal your heart and save your relationship. My name is Drew Boa and I'm here to show you how Let's go. Hey man, welcome back to part two of this series on masturbation, where I am answering your spastic questions. You guys have given me so many great questions and comments and insights that I'm excited to share here as we look at some case studies interpreting whether this particular version of masturbation is unhealthy, neutral or maybe even healthy, and I invite you to suspend any certainties or preconceived beliefs that you may have had so that you can have an open mind and engage these questions honestly. I know that we all have convictions and opinions about this, and I'm hoping that we can have a conversation that's really helpful to everyone, that's free from shame, guilt and condemnation and that's really rooted in love. And if you find this conversation helpful, please share it with your friends. Enjoy the episode. Thank you for listening. Now that we've talked about the Bible and brain science, let's get into some specific scenarios. Asking the question can masturbation ever be neutral or healthy? The first few case studies will come from my own life. Imagine a toddler is discovering his body, pleasuring his penis and his testicles. This is a situation I am witnessing with my young son. He really likes to touch himself down there. I notice it when I change his diaper. What do you do when a seven month little boy is really enjoying putting his hand on his penis and testicles while his diaper is being changed? Technically, that is sexual self-stimulation, not to orgasm. What do you make of that? What do you do with that? Technically, he's masturbating. He's touching his penis. It feels good Like what do you do? What do you guys think Unhealthy, sinful, neutral, healthy? I think a lot of parents either freak out and shame their children or they just ignore it and avoid it and try not to think about it. What if we took a different posture and see this as a normal sexually developmental behavior and in fact, in this scenario, i would say that it's good. He's discovering his body, he's finding out what it can do, he's learning what feels good, that is beautiful, that is sacred, that is holy. I'm actually going to just say, hey, you found it Great job. I'm laughing there while changing my son's diaper, i see a few of you guys saying it's neutral. A child doesn't know exactly. It's totally normal and okay. There's no lust involved. This is important, guys. That's an example of nonlustful masturbation. This is a great example of innocent curiosity. Now here's another case study to think about. Let's say a six-year-old boy is learning to masturbate from his uncle, who is demonstrating the behavior for him and guiding him through it. Now, what do you think? Is it a sin for this boy to be doing that? Is it neutral? Is it healthy? Now I see a flood of responses saying that is sexual abuse. He is being sexually abused. Yes, he is, yet he is still participating in this action. So here's another example where, technically, yes, this boy is masturbating And technically, yes, this is harming him, this is destructive, but it's not his action. Someone else right? I see guys saying it is not necessarily a sin for the boy. Exactly, he is being sinned against even as he himself is masturbating. It is not the boy's fault. That was abuse, exactly. So I want to challenge some of you to apply that verse to yourself, especially if you are a survivor of sexual abuse. Jesus does not condemn you. He welcomes you with compassion and he is fiercely protective of you, and for that reason he wants to protect you from going back there. I'm not saying that the six-year-old boy should have a millstone tied around his neck. I'm saying that the uncle who sexually abused him is the one at fault and that Jesus is fiercely protective of that six-year-old boy. A lot of times when men look back on memories of sexual abuse like that one, they feel tremendous self-condemnation and maybe even would think of Bible verses to support that. Here's the Bible verse that I believe applies to that situation. Jesus said if any of you causes one of these little ones to stumble, it would be better for a millstone to be tied around his neck for him to sink to the bottom of the sea. That, i believe, is how Jesus feels about that situation. I just got the chills saying that, and that really sets the stage for so many of us to come back to this behavior again and again. It's a reenactment of trauma. So when we talk about okay, is masturbation okay? We need to consider some of these early formative stories that have shaped us. We don't want to stay stuck in those stories, we want to outgrow them. Jeremiah says the ironic part is that the uncle is also the six-year-old boy. Maybe that uncle was a six-year-old boy at one time. As an adult. He is responsible for what he does and yet he is allowing that inner child to take control. All right, i realize those are some emotionally loaded case studies. You can see how in the first one, a young boy is learning to masturbate and it's very innocent, it's developmentally appropriate, and in the second one it is abusive and destructive. Let's talk about a third one. A teenage boy finds that by masturbating he can regulate his emotions. He's going through rejection, bullying, loneliness. His relationship with his parents is almost non-existent. Masturbation is helping him survive. Let's say he's 13 years old. How do you view that behavior? I see a few guys saying that's me. You know what All three could be. You, all three are versions of masturbation that we can't just gloss over and put them in the same category. We can't just say it's always a sin or it's always healthy, like no, no, we need to be able to get into the particularity and the specifics and the details. As we get into the teenage years it becomes a little bit less clear. Obviously, children are not responsible for their behavior. What do you say about teenagers? There was a time when I was a teenager when I didn't really know what to think of masturbation. I remember talking to an aunt because I didn't feel safe talking to my parents, and she said it's okay, as long as you don't do it too much. She didn't realize that she was actually setting me up for sexual addiction by just giving me this gateway drug to do and just try to not do it too much. See, she wasn't really getting to the heart. She wasn't really getting into the core of why I was masturbating and how it was shaping me. As we're engaging in these conversations, we need to keep the focus on formation. Roger says if I found out that's happening with the boy, i would talk to him about better ways to regulate his emotions. Excellent, we're getting to the core issue and finding a healthy way to manage, a healthy way to deal with the root issues. Andy says I didn't understand the significance of the connection between masturbations and emotions until this year, and I think it's a key connection that Christian youth and teen ministries are missing. I really think you're right about that. So many times this sexual behavior may feel like it's addressing a sexual need, but it's actually not. No one needs sex, everyone needs intimacy And the roots of it are in our emotions that get sexualized. Addiction is an adolescent behavior. It's a stage many of us got trapped in and stuck in. Next case study a college student is experimenting with masturbation without fantasy. So he tries masturbating to an inanimate object a cheeseburger, a really juicy, delicious cheeseburger. That was me. I was in college. I was talking with a pastor, asking him about masturbation and decided to see what would happen if I could masturbate to an object. Is it still objectification if I'm masturbating to an object? So you can't objectify something that's already an object? Now you might argue that I was objectifying myself and my own body by masturbating. What do you think about that? Roger says that would possibly produce a fetish. In my case it didn't. I have no sexual attachment to cheeseburgers, i promise you. It was a stretch, okay, it was a struggle to try to make it happen, but it happened. What do you think of that? I mean, my intentions were really once again focused on learning and discovery. So these are some of the many different situations that come up where we need to evaluate the behavior not just from a simple set of rules, but really asking deeper questions. Let's say there's a young single man considering the possibility of celibacy, knowing that if he does become celibate he may never have an orgasm again. Let's say this young man makes orgasms a part of his routine. He knows that when he goes to the gym and when he does certain exercises he's going to ejaculate. It's probably going to happen, but in his thought life there is literally nothing going on except finishing his reps. There's a purely physical release. There's no fantasy, there's no lust involved. In fact, he's not even using his hands. It's not bonding with his own body in the same way. It's not bonding to specific images in the same way. I wonder if that might make his possible to sell a bit single life. Maybe a little bit more realistic for him to know that there is this release. Next case study a 20-something dating man is preparing for marriage. He grew up in purity culture. He has never masturbated before. Some of you guys might have a hard time imagining that. He has always been ashamed of his penis and he is scared of what might come out of it. He is intimidated by the idea of sex and he masturbates to learn about himself, maybe while thinking about his future bride. When we ask these questions okay, why are you doing this? Who are you becoming? In this case, he is not outgrowing porn. He's outgrowing purity culture. He is learning to see his body as good. He is learning to embrace what God has made. Now that might get twisted up later, but at least initially, to me this seems like he is becoming a man who's more at peace with himself, a man who is not ashamed of his sexuality, a man who is courageously facing his fears. So let's think about another guy. A man in his 30s is engaged to be married. He's outgrowing porn and overcoming lust, but despite huge investments in his sexual recovery, he continues to act out with porn regularly. His fiance has set a boundary that if he uses porn again she will break up with him. However, she does not see masturbation by itself as a sin. In desperation, this man plans out specific times to intentionally masturbate. He is open about this with his fiance. For him, this is a kind of crutch, a temporary guardrail, a nicotine patch helping him detach from porn and protect his relationship. So you can see how, in this scenario, it might have a temporary purpose, not a long-term goal. Maybe it does not stay temporary, who knows? I'm not sure. I see a couple of responses. Okay, so what do you guys think about this dude? What do you think about this? He's getting ready for marriage. He knows that if he uses porn she's going to break up with him, so he sets up a time, a place to masturbate. He chooses it. I see some comments saying it sounds risky. it sounds like methadone. You'll find that it is not temporary. Tony says I have so much compassion he's trying to help himself detach and work through the addiction. Someone says I did this to get myself off porn and acting out with men. Yeah, this is one of those situations when you have to ask okay, how is the behavior affecting you? Right, what is the result of this? Are you becoming more like Christ or not? This is one of those situations where I think two guys can be doing it with very different results, and we need to have some humility and discernment as we consider these things. Thank you for sticking with me. Let's keep going. A married man has been free from porn for the past six months, but a perfect storm of circumstances leaves him feeling trapped in the addictive cycle again. He doesn't want to cheat on his wife with porn. He doesn't want to contribute to sex trafficking by continuing to use porn, so he settles for masturbating without porn instead. Here's a key detail He does not tell his wife beforehand or after. What do you think of that Now? on the one hand, masturbation by itself, without porn, does not usually lead couples to break up or get divorced. On the other hand, this is still deception. This is still a form of secrecy and betrayal, because there is no consent. I really believe that sexual consent is a non-negotiable requirement within marriage, especially from a biblical perspective. When you are one with your wife, when you are united with your wife, what you do affects her, even if it's in secret, even if it's in private. So really need to consider that aspect. Let's keep going. A married man in his 40s is undergoing a vasectomy. His doctor tells him to ejaculate 20 to 30 times over the next 10 weeks to clear the sperm from his system, Knowing that he is not going to have that many sexual dreams, he is not going to have spontaneous ejaculations. He masturbates to obey the doctor's orders. This is a scenario where I think it's safe to say I would masturbate in that situation, of course with my wife's consent. Of course we would talk about the whole vasectomy thing. What do you guys think about that? John says been there, done that. This is news for a lot of guys. Like, when you get a vasectomy. You could be required to do this. Curtis says completely fine, yeah, i think so too. This is an example of masturbation. It's not about lust, it's not about fantasy, it's about something else. All right, i only have two more. Okay, a married man in his 70s is no longer able to get an erection through sexual intercourse alone. But if he starts out by touching his own penis, that warms him up to engage with his wife And they both enjoy the experience. So he starts by stimulating himself. He doesn't end that way. In my mind, this is an example of masturbation leading to intimacy, leading into relationship, leading not into immediate gratification but delayed gratification, slowing down, connecting, loving right. Tony and Mark say that's foreplay. A couple of guys are saying that's foreplay. Keith says okay, i'm 65 and I have to do that Exactly. Miles says go, grandpa. Yes, that is part of their sexual act. It's consensual. Oh, you guys get it Now. Here's one last story that has really expanded my perspective about this. This story comes from the book Out of the Doghouse for Christian Men by Marnie Free and Dr Rob Weiss. Consider Sam and Mary. After Mary was paralyzed from the neck down in a diving accident, she obviously was unable to perform sexually and she was no longer interested in anything sexual. For Sam, of course, this was a disappointment, because they loved each other very much and had no interest in ending their marriage. They were able to agree on certain sexual boundaries. For instance, sam was free to masturbate as long as it didn't involve pornography or fantasy other than about their shared sexual activity. As they adjusted to their new normal, mary came to enjoy seeing Sam masturbate and hearing how he was imagining being sexual with her. This vulnerability sparked a bit of sexual desire for Mary. Though she was never able to bodily participate in sex, she got significant pleasure from Sam's tender and sensual massages. They remained committed to monogamy, got creative and discovered unique ways to share sexual energy. Two decades later, they are still happily married. Wow, what do you guys think about that? Hmm, i'm not seeing anybody say that is unhealthy or sinful, and if you think that I welcome your perspective, let's continue the conversation. So far, these comments are saying that's awesome, a great story, healthy for them. Wow, that's a great compromise. They're making love. Exactly. This is an example of how I think masturbation can, in certain circumstances, fit into a God-centered life, a gospel-aligned life. This is one example of how masturbation can be spiritually formative, how it can actually lead to intimacy, how it can be part of emotional connection, not just regulating your mood, how it can be loving, not just lustful, paul says. I think the bottom line of all this is that if it promotes intimacy or doesn't detract from intimacy, it's good, but if it detracts from intimacy it's bad. I mean, i think that is a good basic rule of thumb that we might teach our children, although maybe there's more complexity as we get older, and I recognize the different church traditions and different families have different views about this. For example, the Catholic Church has a very developed theology of sex, and this might not fit into that. Yet they have a lot of beauty and wisdom, too, to share. Andy says these last two are in a great area for qualifying as masturbation to me, because even though they are examples of touching and stimulating one's own genitals, it is not actually an entirely solo act, so we might have to have some more specific language. Here's why I mention all this. When we talk about masturbation, we need to be very clear about what exactly are we talking about. Sexual self-stimulation could be happening in the context of intimacy between husband and wife, right. It could be happening isolated. We need to ask better questions. We need to get more specific. We can't just make these huge blanket statements, entirely condemning it or condoning it. We need to get specific and we need to go deeper, asking why are you doing this and who are you becoming as a result? How does this particular sexual behavior align with the heart of God? That's it, guys. That's my 13-year learning that I'm sharing with you. Thank you so much for listening to all of these different case studies and considerations. Ultimately, my hope is that you will come out of this with more clarity about what God says and doesn't say, what brain science has to teach us, about how these behaviors might shape us or form us, and all the different nuances over the course of lifespan, from being a baby to a child, to a teenager, to an adult. How our sexual development can include masturbation at various points and have a lot of complexity to it. Roger says I've never met anyone that has spent this much time thinking about this subject. Daniel says thanks so much, drew. Your humility and vulnerability are so appreciated in helping us all become the men that God has created us to be. You are welcome. Okay, now you all had some more questions that you asked in the community and I want to answer as many of those as I can in the time we have left. Here are some of those spicy questions. Is masturbation sinful if it is done to relieve a physical urge that is keeping one awake at night and without any sexual fantasies? Let's apply what we just talked about. Go deeper. Just evaluating the sexual behavior is just looking at the surface level. Sin is a condition of the heart. So check your heart. Are you really asking what can I get away with? Or are you really interested in aligning yourself with the heart of God? Who are you becoming as a result of this behavior? This question is really important. How can I talk about masturbation with my sons? Here's how I plan on doing it With my sons when the time is right for them. I'll start this way. Okay, guys, i want to teach you something new. Give yourself a hug. Give yourself a big old hug. Yes, how does that feel As you give yourself a hug? rub your back, maybe rub your upper body. Just give yourself a little rub. How does that feel? Feels good. You might even try tapping your body. Tap all over. How does that feel? You're stimulating yourself? Yeah, feels good, right? What happens when we tickle your feet? Ooh, that's really ticklish. Your feet have a lot of nerve endings And the part of your body with the most nerve endings is actually your penis. It has the most pleasure receptors of any area of your body And when you touch it it feels good, just like when you rubbed your arms and you gave yourself a hug. When you rubbed your penis, it actually feels really good And God made it that way. Your pleasure is good. Your penis is good. Masturbation is stimulating your penis. It's rubbing your penis just like you would rub your arms. And we need to talk about this because probably some other boys at your school will talk about it too And you might wonder if it's okay or not. And whatever questions you have are all so good. If you ever talk to me about this, i'll never judge you. I will always love you and welcome your questions. We might ask why are you doing this? If you're rubbing your penis to find out what your body can do, that's really good. You know, when you continue to touch it, you might have some white stuff come out That's called semen And you might also just be touching it to enjoy the sensations, right Just to give yourself a hug, that's good too. If you're touching it to try to take away the stress that you feel or the pain that you feel. I would really want to hear more about that, because that can really become dangerous. It can have some negative consequences. When you're older, when you touch your penis, you will feel a deep desire for connection and pleasure. That's your sexuality. Whenever you feel a deep desire for connection and pleasure, that's your sexuality. If I might motivate you to touch your penis, your sexuality is the engine for intimacy that God gave you, the engine for connection, and as you grow up in general, it's good to stop touching your penis so that you can learn how to be even more connected and intimate and experience even greater pleasure. That's the way I would approach talking about masturbation with a child. How is masturbation without fantasy different than masturbation with fantasy? Without fantasy, you are not bonding to an image, you are not bonding to a person and you're not objectifying anyone, except perhaps yourself. That's really important because there is a fine line between bonding and bondage. Sex was designed to be bonding and that bonding can easily become bondage when it's coupled with fantasy. In masturbation without fantasy, however, even if you're not bonding with someone. It's still isolated, it's still immediate and it's still self-focused. So consider how that's shaping you Also if you're married. I really believe that masturbation, even without fantasy, requires consent. In the community one man asked what activities besides masturbation give us the same release or activate our reward system the way masturbation does, when we're talking about the kind of masturbation that's part of an addictive cycle. I was really thinking about this and I thought the closest thing might actually be binge eating. Food and sex are the two primary types of addiction because they relate so closely to our biology and to our body's normal functions. God created us to eat food. We are created as sexual beings And so I think probably the closest thing to activating our reward system would be binge eating. Next might be anything addictive like drugs or alcohol. If you want the same release and the same reward system as masturbating, then one of those activities is probably the closest thing. But if you're asking what activities can activate our reward system in a healthier way, i have found a really amazing one that provides a huge release of energy without actually ejaculating or releasing semen. It has a way of kind of deflating a sexual attraction or fantasy, and that is rapid breathing for one or two minutes. So I did this the other day. I came across something in a book I was reading that really triggered me sexually. It was something that just felt so, so, so powerful And I literally for one or two minutes just went like over and over again for one or two minutes. At the end of it I was so spent There was no sexual energy left. When you do rapid breathing it really ramps up your sympathetic nervous system gets into an elevated state. I mean you know, kind of like when you're having an orgasm, you breathe really rapidly And then at the end it goes straight from the sympathetic nervous system to the parasympathetic Whew. But it's not the kind of numbing disconnection of the dorsal vagal pathway, it's the safety and relaxation of the ventral vagal pathway. So I realized that's a lot of technical language. All that to say, if you are interested in possibly trying that out, be aware that that may not be for everybody, especially if you are possibly at risk of any kind of respiratory issues. Yes, it can make you a little dizzy And you don't want to hyperventilate, but that's one that has been really helpful for me. Another activity super simple Ultimately to meet those emotional needs and to meet those emotional needs Ultimately, to meet those emotional needs underneath some of our sexual urges. Choose connection. Call a friend you love and trust, talk to somebody that can actually activate your reward system in a healthier way. And if you want a natural, normal dopamine rush rather than the super normal stimuli, choose an activity with delayed gratification. Choose an activity like running, reading, listening to a podcast, working out, making art, cooking, cleaning something with delayed gratification so that you can reset your brain with a normal pattern of pleasure, rather than the super normal stimuli. Okay, this was a really interesting question. How does edging without orgasm affect the brain versus going all the way to orgasm? Many guys say they don't masturbate, but they edge a lot. What is the difference? Doug Carpenter answered this in our community. He said I would first need to understand the reason why a person is edging. Then what is the fantasy or type of porn being used for edging, if any? That's important context. Doug says edging can cause the sexual high to last much longer and be stronger because of the prolonged dopamine surges. It is like an IV drip of dopamine, where someone pushes on the gas pedal every few minutes but then backs off. It can be an unhealthy training of the body to prolong orgasm that leads to complications with a partner. However, it is also a form of treatment for a person with premature ejaculation, a technique used by sex therapists and urologists to train the body for greater stamina for satisfying sex for both man and woman. The acceptability of edging comes down to purpose. I've used it before in therapy to help treat premature ejaculation. We had charts and goals all involving edging frequency and length of time to bring yourself close to orgasm, while mentally training the person to identify orgasm controls and triggers. I realize that's a lot of information. Here's the point. Non-ejaculatory masturbation and edging can be lustful or it can be part of a different purpose, like Doug was describing, treating premature ejaculation. Okay, loaded question How common or realistic is it for men who have no other orgasm outlet to also eliminate masturbation in addition to porn? First of all, this question seems to be a little objectifying because it's referring to an orgasm outlet. I assume you're referring to a person, probably a woman, who is your wife. Guys, we need to change our view of women. A wife is not an orgasm outlet. If you are using someone, even if that person is your wife, that's dehumanizing. A wife is not a sexual vending machine and many men mistakenly believe that being married gives them an outlet that they can just have. They often think this will make it easier to live without porn or to live without masturbation. But, guys, this is wishful thinking. Marriage actually makes it harder in many cases If you're single, if you plan on being single for a long time. I must admit it's not common for men to eliminate masturbation from their lives. But yes, it is very realistic, just like outgrowing porn. Outgrowing porn is not common, but it is realistic. I truly believe anyone can do it, and the hardest part is unlearning the old way. Does stopping masturbation contribute in any way to reproductive issues? No, the urologist I consulted said there are a few studies that have shown a benefit with regards to masturbation and prostate cancer prevention, but I am not aware of any detriment that not ejaculating can cause. Next question What if you want more sex than your wife wants? Is it okay to masturbate in those times? If not, why? Why is it up to her to decide this if she doesn't want sex? First of all, sex is not a need. No one needs sex, even though everyone does need intimacy and connection. My friend, your wife is not responsible for your sexual fulfillment. It is not her job to manage you or to be the gatekeeper protecting you and protecting the marriage from your sexual choices if you're not getting the amount of sex that you want, so it's not her job, she's not responsible. However, she is directly impacted by your sexuality and by your sexual choices because you're married to her and you two are one. So I strongly believe that sexual activity in marriage requires consent from both partners. So it's really not up to her, it's up to both of you, and if you want to read more about this, i highly recommend The Great Sex Rescue by Sheila Ray Gregoire. How do I recover from masturbation induced erectile dysfunction? That is something that I've personally been through, and for me, that journey meant slowly re-acclimating to a real woman and unlearning the solo sexual activity that I had done for years. This took so much patience and gentleness. I needed to slowly build these new neural pathways of sexually responding to another person, not just thinking about what I want or what I need, but what does this other person want, what does she need And how can we create something beautiful together? And man, it did not come naturally, so I would just want to validate that, guys, getting married and learning to include and prioritize another person in your sexual activity is a steep learning curve. It can take a long time And when we were first sexually engaging I actually needed her to stimulate me manually. It felt similar to masturbation, right, except instead of my hand it's her hand. And then slowly, over time, i began warming up to more and more of her body until seven months later I was like look, no hands, I can finally have full intercourse. The last question is Drew, i don't struggle with poor and much, but I can't seem to go a week without masturbation. How do I stop masturbating? Gentlemen, the single most powerful tool I have discovered for outgrowing masturbation is to connect with your inner child, and I realize that might sound cliche or that might sound vague or theoretical, but remember, masturbation develops in childhood. It's not men who get hooked on masturbation, it's boys. And connecting with your child self, with the younger parts of you, is one of the most powerful ways to be able to relate to your sexuality rather than be controlled by your sexuality. Just yesterday, one of the men in my groups said when I'm feeling the urge to sexually act out, i immediately go to my little boy or my teenage boy and ask him what he needs. It is amazing how, the more deeply I connect with him, the sexual urge is almost instantly go away. I find that in that moment I no longer want sex. Instead I want connection. I realize that it's not that way for everyone And it takes practice to learn this skill. Obviously it's not the only way to eliminate masturbation. It's a spiritual process, it's a psychological process, it's a social, relational process And connecting with your inner child can really really help. But the more I do this work, i find that men have trouble connecting with their inner child. It seems strange, or they don't know how, or they try to connect and it just doesn't seem to work very well. So that's why I am hosting a free live workshop called the Inner Child Challenge on July 7th and 8th. I'm going to teach you a proven process for loving and leading your inner child to freedom from porn and masturbation and any other unwanted sexual behavior. At the recent virtual retreat with Andrew Bauman we did this and it was incredible. Guys who had historically had so much trouble trying to connect with their inner child had huge breakthroughs. This workshop is going to be two hours long. There will be three opportunities Friday night, saturday morning and Saturday evening, and you can sign up at husbandmaterialcom. This is open to any man, especially Christian men. You can go to husbandmaterialcomcom to join me for this awesome event. I can't wait. It's going to be awesome. Thank you for your interest in this complex and super important topic. If you have further questions, i would love to hear your thoughts and reflections, or some of your opinions in the husband material community. Always remember you are God's beloved Son and you, he is well pleased.