Speaker 1: 0:01

Welcome to the Husband Material podcast, where we help Christian men outgrow porn. Why? So you can change your brain, heal your heart and save your relationship. My name is Drew Boa and I'm here to show you how let's go. Hey man, thank you for watching part three of our series on story work for men outgrowing porn. Thank you for watching part three of our series on story work for men outgrowing porn. Sadly, we had some recording issues with this one, so parts of this video will be audio only. However, the example of story work when Wendell shares his story was captured successfully, so bear with us on the video and enjoy the episode.

Speaker 1: 0:40

In this episode, you're going to learn how to write a story with story expert Marcus Spahr, and then you'll hear the third installment of our series, where we recorded a story group live so that you all could understand what is involved in this work. Marcus is a certified husband material coach. He was our first director of care and support and did an incredible job. Now he's running his own coaching business and his own podcast Between the Covers. I think you guys will really enjoy his wisdom.

Speaker 1: 1:08

Here we go. Welcome, marcus. Good to see you, man. Good to be back again, drew. Thanks for having me. You're welcome. Today. We are starting off by talking about how to write a story, not talking about writing the entire story or autobiography of your life, although that can be extremely valuable, especially when you look at your sexual history and getting a sense of, okay, what is my sexual story. But we're talking about writing a much smaller, more focused kind of story, and you have been helping men do this at Husband Material story and you have been helping men do this at Husband Material both in HMA and as a coach for years now.

Speaker 2: 1:50

Yeah, I've kind of become an expert on the topic, I think.

Speaker 1: 1:54

Exactly, and that's why I'm so excited to have you here, marcus. What are some of the biggest mistakes people make when they start to try to write a story?

Speaker 2: 2:09

make when they start to try to write a story. Some of the mistakes that I commonly see for individuals trying to write one of these stories is they do too much in little pockets of time. It's like, well, this happened when I was five years old and then there was this incident that happened when I was 13. And then at 18. And ultimately, you know, it led to this here when I was an adult, and we have a tendency to focus too much on backstory and setting the stage, it's like, for you to understand what happened over here when I was an adult. You need to understand these other three things here, and those can really detract from the actual story that we're trying to tell. It takes some of the feelings away, it takes some of the impact.

Speaker 2: 3:03

It's more like explaining why I did what I did, when really we just need to get into the one specific scenario that we're wanting to talk about, what is coming up and is important for us to discuss, discuss and just stay right there. Let us feel what happens, let us experience what happened to you there and don't try and justify or explain away because, oh, all of these other things happen along the way.

Speaker 1: 3:35

Yeah, it's so easy to get distracted and to try to tell five stories at once rather than going into all of the details of just one story. And what are some of those details that people should be focused on trying to include?

Speaker 2: 3:52

Well, in terms of the details, I like to encourage people to focus on two different types of details. The first one is your sensory details, and that's engaging your five senses. What do you see, what do you hear, what do you taste, what do you smell, what do you feel? An example of that just kind of going with my own thing is going back to a story that is centered around the house that I grew up in, is centered around the house that I grew up in. Well, I remember a time when we had shag carpet in this house, and so if I am sharing this story that was around that time, then if I'm sitting on the floor, or even if I'm just sitting on a chair or the sofa and my feet are on the floor, then what did that shag carpet feel like? What were the smells in the room around you? What did you hear as this experience was going on? What can you see in just your environment, but then also in the faces or the body language of the people that you're interacting with? What can you taste?

Speaker 2: 5:08

Some people are like, well, I can't really taste anything in these memories. It's like, well, it's first thing in the morning. No one is outside of the realm of morning breath. You know you just you have that distinct tangy taste in your mouth first thing when you wake up in the morning you can think all the lovely bacteria that's doing its job in there. Yet you still have that. What are you tasting? Are you nervous about something? Are you clenching? What are you feeling in your jaw? I don't know about you, but when I'm stressed that can actually impact a lot of different things about me. I'm feeling pain in my teeth because I'm holding so much tension in my jaw it can even make my mouth kind of dry, so it's like I'm tasting the air around me.

Speaker 1: 6:03

Why is it important to go into that level of detail?

Speaker 2: 6:08

It's important to go into that level of detail because it really gets us back into that memory so that we are effectively re-experiencing it and at the same time, we're typically writing these stories so that someone else can experience them with us. What is so commonplace for you is not necessarily going to be commonplace for someone else. Not everyone in husband material is going to have experiences with shag carpets or with this certain kind of dog that I grew up with, or just with the specific family that I have. We all have these different experiences.

Speaker 1: 6:57

Yeah, For example, if you are writing your story and you say I was sexually abused, Well, what does that really mean?

Speaker 2: 7:06

I mean that can be so many different things depending on your experience.

Speaker 3: 7:11

Sexual abuse is so different for everyone.

Speaker 2: 7:15

It looks different. Sometimes it's being forced upon you, sometimes it's grooming, sometimes it's coming from an adult, sometimes it's coming from like an older sibling. But it's different depending on who it is, where, when, how.

Speaker 1: 7:35

Right, it could be an older boy, it could be a boy who just had more knowledge than you. I would even say that early exposure to pornography is a form of sexual abuse, and when we get into those sensory details it becomes so much more real, exactly, and it allows us to feel I think there was another type of detail you said was really important.

Speaker 2: 7:58

Yes, and the second kind of detail that is important for us to talk about are the emotional details. What were you feeling in this story when this person says that to you? How did that impact you? What feelings did you experience? How did that alter your mind during that time? Did it make you feel elated, did it make you feel seen right before something tragic happened, or did it demean you and make you feel invisible or unwanted?

Speaker 2: 8:41

We need to have both of those, because the sensory details paint the picture of where all of this was taking place, and then the emotional details come in and they let us know what's happening on the inside, and it helps us to empathize with what the storyteller is bringing to the table, because the last thing we need when we're sharing something so, so impactful, something traumatic, something tragic, last thing you want is someone sitting there with their arms crossed is like, oh man, that really sucked and we just feel almost violated.

Speaker 2: 9:31

We share these because we want other people to hear the pain and maybe even see something that we just deemed as oh yeah, that was just normal, that's just what happened with my family and be able to just look across at you and say, drew, that shouldn't have happened, that wasn't normal. That's not how parents are supposed to act, that's not how friends treat each other. And that's the importance of those emotional details. It connects us with other people and it allows others to take a look from the outside and reveal, sometimes, what is more impactful that no that shouldn't have happened.

Speaker 2: 10:24

It should have been better than what you received.

Speaker 1: 10:28

And as we write these stories, I believe the level of detail should be enough to feel uncomfortable, especially the uncomfortable details that we might not want to admit to ourselves, much less share with another person. We give ourselves an opportunity to be healed Either to be wounded or to be healed and it's scary, it's vulnerable, it's terrifying, and maybe there are some details that you're not ready to share and that's okay. Clarifying, and maybe there are some details that you're not ready to share and that's okay, but the power of this work is in the particularity. The more we can zoom in on the particulars, the more others will be able to enter in and be with us.

Speaker 2: 11:21

Or maybe we were alone and powerless previously exactly, and I like how you do say that the power is in the particularities. I have found that to be so true. Even with a story that I have shared multiple times, there's new details that are surfacing, or I'm sharing it with someone new and they have a completely different insight. They look at it from a different angle and it validates our stories. It validates our experiences. I have worked with some people where they're writing a story and it could almost be defined as a clinical experience of what happened. It's just the facts and there's no feeling, there's no emotion tied with this, and we can often use that as a defense mechanism, separate ourselves from the story. I'm just going to tell you what the facts are and you're giving details, yet the details without the emotional context for them. It makes it dry, it makes it difficult for other people to empathize. If there's no feelings for you to empathize with, how can we become empathetic to your experience?

Speaker 1: 12:52

Marcus, one of the biggest questions I often get is what if I don't remember the details? What if I don't remember much of my childhood? How am I supposed to write a story about one event that seems hazy at best, about one event that seems hazy at best.

Speaker 2: 13:08

That is a good and excellent question. I have been in that position. If you have experienced that kind of say, disconnection from your own story, then you write what you know. Great example of this is I have an identical twin brother. We were commenting on this one interaction that happened and I could swear until I'm blue in the face. I was the one who did. I don't even remember what the thing was, but I was the one who did it and as I'm sharing this story with my twin brother, he looked at me. He's like no, I did that. Well, we have two different stories on the exact same experience. One of us did it, but neither one of us can really remember who did this thing, and that's not what's important. What's important is what you remember. Important. What's important is what you remember. Go with what you remember, go with what you know, and if you are hazy on some of the details, then don't stress about those details. Just go with what you can recall and don't try and fill in the gaps too much. Just write what's right.

Speaker 1: 14:28

And you want to write what felt true.

Speaker 2: 14:31

Exactly.

Speaker 1: 14:32

Because that's what our bodies remember, that's what we carry with us into adulthood Not the objective facts of what happened, but what felt true. So, for example, if I moved away from a group of friends and I thought they didn't really care about me, well, maybe they did care about me and they never told me, but that doesn't matter. Or maybe we did have a goodbye party, but I barely remember it at all. When we're writing a story, we don't need to treat it like a scientific report, we need to treat it like a novel. And that might sound a little bit weird, because I'm asking you to write something kind of fictional. Well, the point is not to just make up stuff, but the point is to bring color and life so that it feels real.

Speaker 2: 15:31

Exactly how many of you have connected with a story that you've read? We're talking autobiographies or biographies. We're talking fiction. We're talking thrillers, whatever it is. We're talking thrillers, whatever it is. When you emotionally connect with the main character or the protagonist of the story, it has so much more of an impact on you and I love that about just storytelling in general. It brings us into this experience and we live it with them brings us into this experience and we live it with them.

Speaker 2: 16:12

It's why storytelling has been so impactful and a part of almost every ancient culture. It's how we learn. It's how we bond. I honestly would love to see more people going back to how it was in the day, when everyone's sitting around a campfire and they're just swapping stories, because that was how we learned about the world around us.

Speaker 2: 16:32

We learned about what was dangerous, we learned about what was important within that culture, within just that group of people, and it was how we built that community. And yet, because so many of us are afraid of what can happen when we share our story which absolutely is a valid concern you have to share the story with someone that you trust, someone you know is going to honor it and keep it safe. And if we keep our stories to ourselves, we are not just losing out on the healing that we can experience, but the healing that can happen within the community around us as a whole.

Speaker 1: 17:16

That's so true, and we got to capture a little bit of that and put our own experience of doing story work as a group into this series, so you guys get to see some great examples of what that actually looks like. Marcus, what is your best advice for somebody who's just getting started on writing one of their stories?

Speaker 2: 17:37

I would say my best advice for someone who's just starting to write their story is don't get stuck in your head, don't overthink it. Write what feels right and write from what you know and, as I shared earlier on, don't jump from memory to memory to memory. Just to explain this one that I'm trying to talk about. Stick with that one memory and let others experience it. They don't need all the backstory.

Speaker 1: 18:11

And that might come out in the processing.

Speaker 2: 18:13

Exactly.

Speaker 1: 18:14

Maybe, as people ask questions, you might be able to highlight different things. The power is in the particularity. So stay focused, go with your gut, get out of your head, get into your body, into your feelings, and you might even want to just free write. I mean, that's a great strategy. To free writing means you put your pencil or your pen on the paper and you just go, you don't stop, you let whatever comes out come out, and then later you can focus on the editing.

Speaker 2: 18:43

Yeah, I've heard people refer to a free write as the vomit draft. You just vomit everything out and then you can go through and find the things that you can then focus on. Sometimes you need to get that out. Sometimes you need to get all of the scrambling in your brain out on paper in order to find what truly needs to be focused on.

Speaker 1: 19:04

Exactly, and if you would like help in writing one of your stories, go down to the show notes in the description for this episode and you'll see a number of options, from getting help straight from me or Marcus, one of our private groups, or in Husband Material Academy, where we are doing this work every week. Now, at this point in the episode, just like we did for part one and part two, we're going to transition into giving you an example of what this really looks like, as Wendell Moss shares a deeply vulnerable story, including sexual secrets that take a lot of courage to reveal, and, as always with story work, I encourage you to consider what might be coming up for you, what parts of his story might relate to yours and what can you learn. Now you're about to hear the third part of the story group we recorded. Here it goes.

Speaker 4: 19:51

When I think of my story around sex and development, I'm reminded of the longing and desire that has existed in me from such a young age. Sex was a topic not much discussed in my home. Sex was something I heard about from friends and talked about, sometimes among cousins. My brother and I shared a bedroom that was only a few feet across the hall from my parents. I never went to sleep right away and I'd often wake easily in the middle of the night to the slightest noise. I remember on a particular night where I heard noises coming from my parents' room, I heard a moaning from a voice that was clearly my mom's voice. I heard nothing else A recalling feeling terrified and disturbed by what I was hearing. I so longed to go in and rescue her from what I thought was harm being brought by my dad. I went to sleep eventually, never bringing up what I'd heard that night. My intuition was that it was sex that my parents were having. From what I heard, it was frightening, but it added to my confusion about sex because of what I was currently experiencing from my own abuse and was taking place with my friend, with Bernard, my abuser I recall so much, designed to be loved and liked I keenly, would listen for sounds and would love to know how people love and enjoy me. I would work hard for people to enjoy me, but when it came to sex I was a frightened kid. But I also was intrigued by sex. The thought of sex brought both enjoyment, longing, but it also brought fear. Once my parents discovered what was happening to me as a kid, sex became something to be ashamed of. What do I do with my enjoyment of when I think about abuse, of my abuse and being attracted to that? The question brought me shame and therefore never to be discussed with anyone. Talking sex is shameful and a no-no.

Speaker 4: 21:50

At age 11, I was invited by two girls to watch pornography. This was another moment of sex being close to me. Within minutes I felt aroused For a moment. The girls weren't even in the room At that moment. Shame was not even at the forefront. But remembering what I so longed for, I recall wanting to be in that video and even wishing that that would be me. I just stood still and not let the girls know what was happening to me, that I was so drawn and aroused as an 11-year-old could be. I was ashamed of my arousal. The longing and desire I felt had not been that strong since I was a little kid.

Speaker 4: 22:31

It didn't take long for me to begin to crave more of what I saw. When I began to discover friends who had magazines or movies, I'd try to hang out with them wherever I could. Every picture, every scene that I saw, I'd watch to see what expressions were on their face, what sound would be coming to reveal pleasure. I often remembered my own experience, but never to be told. I remember as a kid and my own abuse. Even then I wanted to be enjoyed and liked and I wanted to know that the person was being pleasured by me.

Speaker 4: 23:09

As I got older, the craving for pornography grew. Pornography and magazines were safe Internally. Sex scared me and I could never admit it. It meant that it did Further. Shame would come. Pornography continued to be my teacher and a safe haven to be sexual. Pornography continued to be my teacher and a safe haven to be sexual. It elicited a longing and desire deep within me that no one else was allowed to see.

Speaker 4: 23:34

As I got into high school, sex was still just as frightening. By that time, I had learned how to cover well my fears, shame and ambivalence around it when hearing stories from high school and college teammates about those sexual encounters. Much shame and fear would arise, always waiting for the question what about you, wendell? I never heard the curses say I have not had sex. Would I be seen as gay or strange if I admitted that I was fearful?

Speaker 4: 24:05

One particular night during college I was invited to come to one of my college football teammates' room at 2 am in the morning. As I stepped into the room I saw that an orgy was taking place. My heart dropped. Fear covered me. I wanted to flee immediately. If I stay, I'll be exposed. If I go, I'll be considered strange and questioned.

Speaker 4: 24:30

It was a moment of painful dilemma. I stayed and pretended to enjoy what was happening and allowed myself to be even fondled before coming up with a lie that I had just been with someone and that I was done and that got me the pass to leave and that I was done and that got me the past to leave. No one knew of the fear and shame, but even more the desire and longing I so desired. But it had only been triggered by pornography and my own abuse. What often went through my heart was what if my friends really knew my story? What if they knew about my love for pornography, would they like me, would they be my friend? Would they still consider me a man? Would I still be considered a man if it was known that I was brought pleasure in the context of abuse and by pornography?

Speaker 4: 25:20

What's coming up inside you, wendell. Honestly, I think I'm a bit surprised. I think I'm there was halfway through the story where I almost felt regret bringing the story, so I think I had to almost kind of keep calling myself, saying it's okay, it's okay, it's okay because I've read the story, so really, really exposed, and I wasn't expecting to feel that much as I read it this morning.

Speaker 1: 25:53

At what point did you start feeling regret?

Speaker 4: 25:58

Probably around the place where I connected my desire and longing and connected with where I had to wrestle with my desire and longing in the context of abuse. So that felt really really warm, like whoa. Even though it's not new for me to read this story, I think I'm struck that it came up now here that I was struck, but that's when it hit. A lot of my work was so much having to grapple with where I had to admit that man that there was a sense of pleasure even in the context of abuse. That was a lot of work that I had to really grapple with. So it's a complex piece. So I think somewhere, somewhere almost felt like is that too much for this? I think that came to. So I'm going oh, wait a minute, I should stop with the old story, the other story.

Speaker 1: 27:02

So yeah, Sounds like a lot of ambivalence.

Speaker 4: 27:07

Oh, tons, tons, tons tons ambivalence.

Speaker 2: 27:17

Oh, tons, tons, tons, tons. I would even dare say that towards the end of your story, as you're describing this orgy that's taking place in college, it was that same exposure. Like what if they find out about how scared I am of sex?

Speaker 4: 27:30

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 27:31

But then also how drawn I am towards it, especially in this realm of being abused. And here you are speaking that and feeling that same exposure.

Speaker 4: 27:42

Yeah, thank you, marcus. It does feel like it's like this big ball that that just kind of sits here Cause I cause that moment that you bring up. I mean like that's always a part of the story where I still feel overwhelmed, even when I tell that part of the story, because I walk that room. I mean cause it makes it complex, like I I played. I played football in college and so that was kind of you were supposed to, I was was supposed to, just because of reputation, I was supposed to walk in that room, and yes, but to walk in that room can be terrified.

Speaker 4: 28:19

I was like, oh, that's, that's an awesome part of the story that I never look forward to get. I never look forward to get to that door.

Speaker 3: 28:34

But that's what put Marcus Wendell. I'm just struck by the humanity of this story. This is a deeply human you know you talked about your sexual emotions, of you know there being mystery, there being enjoyment, there being longing, there being fear, there being shame, there being confusion. I mean just, I mean literally, it's almost like a Jackson Pollock painting. It's just, you're just, there's so much stuff there and the one thing that this kind of starts with is twofold. Number one there's silence around sexuality for you, and I know many of us share that same grief and that same harm. But there wasn't silence, well said, there were the noises from the bedroom.

Speaker 3: 29:21

Yeah yeah, and you used the line in the story.

Speaker 4: 29:26

I'm just very curious about what sound would be coming to reveal pleasure yeah, I, I remember laying, laying there in as a kid, hearing the sounds um and again of of knowing theoretically, because I was a kid who would just walk in sometimes yeah happens like you're a kid what you just walk in.

Speaker 3: 29:52

Sometimes, yeah Happens.

Speaker 1: 29:53

You're a kid, what you're supposed to do, right? What just happened there? What happened?

Speaker 4: 29:58

when you said that Part of it just feels like there's a part of it that feels it almost feels like I kind of adore it, like because I was that kind of kid, curious, yeah, like I would just walk in, I went over the door and I would walk in on my parents and it was like oops.

Speaker 4: 30:13

So Claudia really laughs. But what's interesting is that when I would hear it, though, it would actually would disturb me Because I took it as, because my father could be violent at times and so I didn't know if it was something happening. But I think I knew what was happening, but again, it was nonetheless disturbing. But then, when it came to abuse, I remember the sounds of my abuser when he was being pleasured and so as a little kid I somehow connected sounds of pleasure. So I think, chris, that's what you're hearing. So there's something where there was this ambivalence about the sounds of pleasure, because again my mind is like it's scary, yes, and I remember it. So, yes, so I think that's what you hear, chris. That line it feels really, really loaded.

Speaker 3: 31:12

And there's also the duality of the porn. And then the embodied sexuality is that in the porn there are sounds of pleasure, and yet those feel comforting, safe, they're usable, functional, they're not harmful, and yet all these questions about sexual identity are you gay? What's wrong with you? Yeah, those. And then I can only imagine the sounds of walking in on that orgy. I mean, you're walking into. It's like your worst nightmare and your living fantasy in that same moment here, my, my sexual worlds collide.

Speaker 3: 31:58

I just felt that, in the way you were talking about that experience and you, you stayed, but you were reluctant. You got out of there as soon as you could. Yeah, tell me more about that. Where are you?

Speaker 4: 32:10

because when I think about walking to the room something you said that that actually never really, never really picked up on for some reason but when you said, like when I walked into the room, there was a sense of fear for some reason, when you said there was also kind of the fantasy, kind of live Yep, like actually becomes more terrifying.

Speaker 3: 32:34

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4: 32:35

Oh yeah, because I can't perform like that.

Speaker 3: 32:37

No.

Speaker 4: 32:38

So when you said that it was interesting that I actually felt kind of like, oh boy, and I think what was crazy is that I I couldn't get away right away. I, because I essentially the story is that I don't want the guys to know that I'm a virgin. I'm in college Division, I school and there is no way in hell I mean you can't let that out.

Speaker 3: 33:06

It's just destroy your rep. Destroy your rep, not one bit.

Speaker 4: 33:15

So then the shame just gets worse that I play a part with harming these, these two girls, like I know better. This feels crazy. So so the sense that I joined in just to protect my own, my own reputation, my own face, and then they didn't make the tear go away. So then it comes with an excuse to say, guys, I just finished with someone else, so having to still try to find a way out, I think I was still there for at least a half hour, yeah, but I was clearly still the first one to leave. But when I left, I mean I did not wait to get out of that room.

Speaker 1: 33:54

It sounds like your desire to be liked and to be enjoyed was keeping you there.

Speaker 4: 34:09

And it even made me join in and it even made me join in. I feel some grace there, and yet I also feel the grief Like I turned into something that was doing harm.

Speaker 1: 34:24

Wendell, I want to bless your fear, mm-hmm. I want to bless the way that your fear was trying to protect you and to protect those girls.

Speaker 4: 34:40

And even long ago, to protect your mom. Honestly, if you have read this story maybe three or four times, I think I blessed the fear, so I think that's what's striking me right now.

Speaker 3: 34:52

I'm not blessed in fear. There's a lot of tension there which makes that room so overwhelming.

Speaker 4: 34:59

Yeah, oh yeah, it's crazy. Yeah yeah, you all kind of helped me to come back, at least specifically, just how terrifying that room was.

Speaker 1: 35:15

And I wonder if it reminded you of just walking into another room, like you used to just walk in.

Speaker 4: 35:26

You know, when I think about walking into my parents' room, I mean there is something that felt like I said it makes me kind of laugh and smile, like there's kind of a like my nickname was Bam Bam, so because I would destroy your toys. But there's something about Bam Bam that feels like you know you're a little rascal, you should keep walking into your parents' room when home. But I also recall feeling, like last time it happened I walked in, I went back in the room, my father came outside and he just looked at me and he goes did you like what you saw? And I remember I didn't say a word, I didn't even answer him. And so even when I say that, even I feel my body change, like it no longer is cute, it becomes shameful. Then I walked in, um, so that actually just came back, as I was telling you as yeah that question feels like it's echoing into that college dorm room.

Speaker 4: 36:46

Oh you better man. Like what you saw.

Speaker 3: 36:50

Oof.

Speaker 4: 37:02

And it was that same silence came up when you had to admit to yourself that you didn't enjoy what you were seeing. That feels really true. That feels really true.

Speaker 1: 37:08

How's your heart, Wendell?

Speaker 4: 37:10

Right now. Honestly, I'm surprised. It feels full and I feel like I feel a lot of grief and yet I feel really grateful. I really do. I think one of the things that I love about this work is to tell a story and only show that you're never done. Yes, so to have these, you three guys bring, uh, take me to some places. That okay, like damn yeah.

Speaker 3: 37:46

All right, we're going there.

Speaker 4: 37:47

Okay, the last group didn't go there, yeah, but it just yeah, so so, so I'm grateful guys.

Speaker 2: 37:56

Thank you well.

Speaker 1: 37:57

Thank you so much for sharing window thank you guys, thank you is there anything you would like to say to your younger self?

Speaker 3: 38:08

yeah I think if I'm listening a little bad, bad mind.

Speaker 4: 38:12

You just go um. Yeah, little fella, I love your curiosity and there's something like I, I love you little rascal.

Speaker 3: 38:26

Yeah, if there's something about brother, we see it in your face. Your face lights up when you talk about that curiosity. I mean it's pure joy because you're innocent and you're just wanting the silence to end and like, will somebody tell me I'm here?

Speaker 4: 38:49

That feels really true, Chris.

Speaker 3: 38:51

Yeah, Like hey, I'm here Anytime, feels really true, chris?

Speaker 4: 38:54

Yeah, like, hey, I'm here Anytime y'all want to let me know what's going on.

Speaker 3: 38:57

I'm here. I don't mean any harm by it, I'm just here. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, it's beautiful man, beautiful.

Speaker 4: 39:12

Well, of course I told the story to Dan and then one time he gave me a look and he goes how many doors did you walk into? And I said, well, probably a nice handful, yeah. But of course, dan being Dan, dan was like aren't you curious, were those doors able to be locked?

Speaker 3: 39:33

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 39:34

Yeah, and he goes. Hmm, Wouldn't they learn? I'm like oh Dan, come on, dude, what are you doing?

Speaker 3: 39:47

It was like do I tell this story? Is there something good here? And to be able to celebrate that curiosity. You know, drew your invitation to that as well, because that is what I take away from this story is there's a goodness there, in the midst of the fear? There's a goodness, there's a curiosity, yeah.

Speaker 1: 40:08

And how redemptive that now you are courageously walking through these doors into these rooms, yeah, bringing light and your voice and your heart. It's just amazing.

Speaker 4: 40:23

Thank you, thanks guys, thank you.

Speaker 1: 40:27

And that's it for part three of our series on story work for men outgrowing porn. If you would like to do this work with a certified husband material coach like me or Marcus Spahr, please go down to the link in the show notes where you can apply to join a husband material group. You can join at husbandmaterialcom slash group or you can wait for the next opening of Husband Material Academy, where we are doing this work every week on Tuesdays actually twice a day on Tuesdays and if you are watching this, during the month of April, we've got our Spring Story Challenge going on right now in the Husband Material community, where we are writing and responding to stories like this every day. Even if you've already done a tremendous amount of story work already, this can still help you, because our stories never end. There's always more to discover and there's always more to heal. There's always greater freedom that we can arrive at as we continue to process our stories.

Speaker 1: 41:20

I wonder if some of you might be feeling a sense of obligation or exhaustion if you've already done a lot of story work and you're like, oh, why do I have to keep doing this? I once had a client ask me Drew, why do I have to keep engaging my story. The truth is you don't have to, but even if you're not engaging your story, your story is still engaging you. So we get to do this work. It is a gift. It is an opportunity for deeper healing, greater freedom and connection that we wouldn't otherwise get. And what a gift it is to be able to hear the stories of others who courageously share. So next week the last part of this series you will learn how to respond to someone else's story and hear an unbelievable story from Marcus Spahr himself. Always remember you are God's beloved son. In you, he is well-pleased.