Speaker 1: 0:01

Welcome to the Husband Material podcast, where we help Christian men outgrow porn. Why? So you can change your brain, heal your heart and save your relationship. My name is Drew Boa and I'm here to show you how let's go. Today, we are continuing the four-part story work series. We are continuing the four-part story work series.

Speaker 1: 0:24

One of the primary reasons why we do story work, why we write and tell the truth about our lives and about our experiences, no matter how much shame, fear or isolation we have held, is in order to break through silence, just like in part one. I want to provide some quotes from the book the Body Keeps the Score by Bessel van der Kolk that I believe really get to the heart of why storytelling and story writing is so important, especially for men outgrowing porn. Van der Kolk writes as long as you keep secrets and suppress information, you are fundamentally at war with yourself. Hiding your core feelings takes an enormous amount of energy, it saps your motivation to pursue worthwhile goals and it leaves you feeling bored and shut down. Meanwhile, stress hormones keep flooding your body, leading to headaches, muscle aches, problems with your bowels or sexual functions, and irrational behaviors that may embarrass you and hurt the people around you. Only after you identify the source of these responses can you start to understand your feelings, and I would add your sexual thoughts and feelings as signals of problems that require your urgent attention. Do you hear what van der Kolk is saying? He's saying that our bodies and our sexuality carry untold stories that need to be known both by us and also that need to be brought into the light of community of relationships. He says if you've been hurt, you need to acknowledge and name what happened to you. While trauma keeps us dumbfounded, the path out of it is paved with words, carefully assembled piece by piece until the whole story can be revealed.

Speaker 1: 2:13

So the first reason why we do story work is to break through silence, shame and self-condemnation, and the second reason is to experience authentic connection. At the core of attachment to porn is isolation from others, disconnection from others, and at the core of outgrowing porn is finding the attachments to replace it. In order to detach from porn, we have to attach to others, to God, to ourselves, so that we can outgrow porn and say, yeah, I just don't need it anymore. I see what it was doing for me, I see the role it played in my life, in my story, and I've grown up to the point that porn has lost its power over me. That happens when we experience connection, and connection does not come without language, without story, without being known. We have been wounded in relationships and we must be healed in relationships, and that not only applies to processing our past, that also applies to the present. When I'm struggling, triggered tempted to go back to porn and masturbation and whatever unwanted behaviors you're working through, it is always going to be more comfortable to try to deal with it by ourselves, to try to deal with it by ourselves, and I am going to be so much more likely to trust someone else who knows my story. So one of the reasons why we do this story work is to create a safety net of people who we can call when we're struggling, because we know that we are known by them, because we know that we are known by them.

Speaker 1: 4:08

As we said in our episode about polyvagal theory a couple weeks ago, co-regulation precedes self-regulation. In other words, we need to receive the love and acceptance and affirmation that we didn't get in order to give it to ourselves too. We need to find out what it feels like to be loved, so that we can stop punishing ourselves through porn, and story work gives us a great opportunity to grow in those relational skills. Story work is not only helpful for receiving what we need, but also learning how to help others. Curiosity and compassion do not come naturally. They are skills that we need to practice. And when you help others, curiosity and compassion do not come naturally. They are skills that we need to practice. And when you get into a story group like the one that we're showing you in this series, you are going to be challenged to set aside some of the ways that you have historically related to others and to try something new. We do not naturally relate to others with empathy and understanding and kindness. It's something we have to learn, especially if we never received it.

Speaker 1: 5:14

One of my favorite reasons why we do story work and maybe the most powerful one for me personally, is understanding the why behind the porn, understanding the why behind the porn, both behind the urge to use it and behind the specific sexual attractions and fantasies that feel powerful. When you do story work in the way that we're showing you here, you are going to get incredible insight that you may not have even thought was possible about why certain things drive you to porn and why certain types of porn appeal to you. It's really profound and, as you probably heard in part one, it makes a lot of sense why my sexual fetish for braces developed when you know the story behind it. There is always a story. Every trigger tells a story. Every emotional pain point that feels intolerable is telling a story. Every sexual attraction that feels irresistible is telling a story.

Speaker 1: 6:16

In story work, we find out what that story is, piece by piece, little by little, piece by piece, little by little, to get more and more freedom and healing. I will admit that simply understanding your story better is not some kind of magic formula, and there's a difference between cognitively grasping what my issues are and actually resolving those issues and making progress on them. However, in order to set the stage for some of those deeper healing experiences, you do have to know what you're healing from, and so that's another reason why we do story work is to pinpoint where am I getting stuck, what are the real core issues that I need to work on, and then that creates a foundation for other healing work that you might do, for example, in the different approaches that you learn about in our free course 10 ways Ways to Heal your Trauma, which you can find at healyourtraumacom. A lot of those more embodied and experiential types of healing are so much more effective when you know your story. So that's another reason why we do story work.

Speaker 1: 7:20

When you do this, you will face parts of yourself that you have hated, parts of yourself that have left you confused, parts of yourself that you would rather run away from or ignore or pretend like they're not there, and in the process you will discover your deeper, god-given desires. You will discover a goodness, beauty and strength that you didn't know was there. Because, guess what? Your story does not start with sin. Your story does not start with trauma. It starts with the God who created you in his image. It starts with creation and then suffering, and sin came later. But when we go into our stories, underneath that suffering, underneath that sin, there is a reflection of who God is in you that you may not be aware of yet, but other men can see it so much more clearly.

Speaker 1: 8:25

When you tell your story in a place like this, you're about to witness a little bit of what that looks like when Chris Inman shares his story, and you'll see how all of us responded Every time. You share something that you've never told anyone before or something you have told someone before, but you tell it again in even more detail, taking even more risk. The healing goes a little deeper, you get a little bit more freed up and over time that accumulates, you get more and more momentum into living in alignment with who you truly are. So now you know why we do story work To break through silence, experience authentic connection, co know why we do story work to break through silence, experience authentic connection, co-regulate when we're triggered to practice curiosity and compassion, to understand the why behind the porn, to reveal and heal childhood trauma, to discover our God-given desires. And you are going to see that very clearly in the story that Chris is about to share. Here's part two of the story group with me, wendell Moss, marcus Barr and Chris Inman.

Speaker 2: 9:28

So this is a story that I've told before, but it's definitely come up a lot recently for me because I'm working back through it and there's some pieces in this story that are very present for me in my own care for myself and, ironically, how it relates to my ability to move into difficult things. I'm going to share it with you. It's called the Lonely Walk. I can't remember many of the days, but most of them felt cold, maybe not in actual temperature, but definitely in temperament. Walking to school in my middle school neighborhood should have been no big deal. Walking to school in my middle school neighborhood should have been no big deal. My mom worked about 20 minutes away in the north part of town and had to be at work by 7.30 am. She would take my sister to school before she went, but no help was offered to me At the time. I claimed I didn't want to be babied. I was the oldest child and the only boy of a divorced family and I thought I need to take care of myself. I don't need to burden my mom. So I would take the daily walk of a mile and a half from my house to my middle school. This route ironically took me right past my sister's elementary school. My mom could have dropped me off, but she rarely offered to take me, never insisted that I ride halfway with her. This was my regular three-year journey through sixth to eighth grade, so for three years the walk took about 30 minutes through my white-bred middle-class neighborhood. The streets wound around with little traffic, but the slithering path often felt dangerous traffic, but the slithering path often felt dangerous. It quickly grew bored. I found odd ways to entertain myself. I counted the blocks in the sidewalk. I'd see how long I could wait before leaving. As not to make myself late On the coldest days I'd wrap myself up in a little coat, just bear up, teeth chattering. No matter what, it was a repetitively lonely experience For the whole of those three years. I do not remember any friendly faces walking my way. I can recall on one hand when someone I knew would offer me a ride to or from my school. My existence in that place was fixed. I was always walking alone. I was always walking alone.

Speaker 2: 11:45

In the second semester of my sixth grade year I began to run into some other students on the final leg of my walk. These students would bully me a common occurrence for me during middle school If I left my house at the last minute I could avoid them. But often my mom made me leave a little earlier so I wouldn't be late. I was short, skinny, wore gold-rimmed glasses, my teeth were gnarly as I hadn't yet received my braces. Because my mom said we couldn't afford for me to play the saxophone in the band, which is a required class, I chose to play the flute. My logic was that's where all the girls were. It made sense in my 11-year-old mind. But the consequences would be catastrophic and that's a story for another time. So I began to walk.

Speaker 2: 12:29

On that cold winter morning, a sense of dread filled my heart when I run into these bullies on the way to school. Again today I had to walk with that ominous question each morning. It frosted my heart along with the cold air. It rusted my heart along with the cold air. Sometimes I was spared, but other times I had to endure 10 minutes of brutal harassment just to get to the place that I was supposed to be.

Speaker 2: 13:04

If I saw them down the way, I could speed up and stay ahead of them. But if I could walk through the concrete ditch which conveniently ran from my house right to right by my school or two. I could hope that there were some neighborhood dogs on the loose. If it had rained recently. The drainage ditch was out. These were nicely engineered structures, free of vegetation, easy to access.

Speaker 2: 13:22

But would I choose to walk in a drainage ditch when there was a perfectly good sidewalk right next to it? I feared that I would look ridiculous climbing out of the ditch. When I got to school, the ditch compounded my shame, but I regularly made that choice. The dogs they were an option too, and those kids were terrified of them. Having never owned a dog, I didn't like dogs much, but the alternative of being bullied was less desirable, so I would pet these strays and have them close, which would effectively keep my harassers at bay. Finally, these other kids stopped going my way and the journey to school continued to repeat.

Speaker 2: 14:02

For those three years, my mom never asked how I was or how my day was. Sadly, my exposure to porn was on that walk, finding a single page of a porn magazine right in the gutter. In seventh grade I felt the loneliness of having to bear up in my chest. Even to this day there was a resounding feeling of abandonment that arises up in me when others leave the house without me. For many years as an adult, my favorite time to look at porn and masturbate was in the morning, right after my family left me alone on their way to school.

Speaker 2: 14:37

There's so much loneliness in this experience and a lack of attunement and nurture. Why do I feel this gnawing deep inside of me when others leave? Why do I linger with a hug or feel such a warm feeling when someone just asks me an empathetic question? I'm wrestling with the feeling that I was never mothered. My mom did what was required of her as a mother. She kept me clean and fed and clothed, but little else and little else. I know she was handicapped by her overwhelming anxieties from her own childhood, but there was little care and concern from her toward me throughout my childhood. In many ways I still feel like that dutiful boy making his way through the world on my own boy making his way through the world on my own.

Speaker 3: 15:32

Thank you so much.

Speaker 2: 15:33

Chris, what's your heart? Doing buddy, it's the usual anxiety just right here in the middle of my chest. I'm a little emotional, a little teary-eyed, because I feel that little boy very strongly with me. Many days when I have to get up and just do I mean normal things, that anxiety, that dread, that that shame, it still feels very present present.

Speaker 4: 16:04

Yeah, I noticed that it was. It was difficult once you got through the story. It was kind of hard for you to not just look down, almost as if you're. You're still wondering if you're walking through this alone.

Speaker 2: 16:23

It feels like that a lot of times, Marcus.

Speaker 4: 16:27

Sounds so difficult, I think what's really hitting me.

Speaker 3: 16:34

Chris is just the. I feel a lot of grief. As you were reading the story, I found myself mad.

Speaker 2: 16:45

It is sad, I want to grieve it, I want to get angry at it, but it comes back like a bad dream every day.

Speaker 4: 16:57

This one sentence really stuck out to me when you read it. My existence in that place was fixed. I always walked alone, yes, and it just keeps coming back as a bad dream.

Speaker 2: 17:11

Yeah, it feels so hard to let go. It's just like you know, it's like I cry out how long, oh Lord, you know how long do I have to sit with this, and yet I don't feel any agency to be angry, to grieve. My mom has always been the parent that I felt most empathetic toward, and yet there's so much harm right.

Speaker 3: 17:37

Chris, just even that statement alone, I think you name it really well. You're an incredible bond with your mother, because what's interesting, of course, is either your mother's the only other character in the story yeah, like she's the only one oh yeah, dad was long gone, 360 miles away, not to be heard from.

Speaker 2: 18:02

I mean, I saw him when I had to see him, but he was not an emotional presence and definitely not a physical presence in this story.

Speaker 3: 18:09

Yeah, I can imagine, chris, that you would have been quite a bind with your mother because, like you said, to get angry or mad at her wouldn't mean what.

Speaker 2: 18:22

Nothing. I mean you know it's orphaned, oh man.

Speaker 3: 18:26

Nothing I mean you know it's orphaned, oh man, I mean to risk losing the only care you have in this story I love the word you well said is that there is a sense of orphan, which makes the story even worse.

Speaker 1: 18:40

Yes, chris, are you ready to go in a different direction?

Speaker 2: 18:49

Please. This is where I live, so, yes, I would love to see some different things.

Speaker 1: 18:57

You talked about going down to the ditch, to the gutter. Mm-hmm which was clean and good as far as gutters go and, as you said, that my stomach sank. No kid should ever have to walk to school in a drainage ditch.

Speaker 2: 19:26

Thank you, Drew.

Speaker 1: 19:27

It almost felt like you were demoted or descending. How do you feel about that drainage ditch?

Speaker 2: 19:37

I mean, I think I was willing to do whatever necessary to survive. That's a phrase that I've used in seasons of my life.

Speaker 3: 19:49

Rich. That ditch made a lot of sense.

Speaker 2: 19:53

Logically, but emotionally it was chaos.

Speaker 3: 19:57

Again, that's the craziness it was the cleanest, it was the safest thing. That little boy would have been crazy to not consider the ditch.

Speaker 2: 20:06

I know, and I did. But I felt ashamed every time I was in it and every time I crawled out of, I mean because it was a big ditch. I mean it was 30, 30 feet, 40 feet wide, I mean it was. It was a production to get in and out of. And here I am with my big backpack, tiny frame, carrying my flute case. I mean I feel like I'm a hobbit, you know, climbing the mountains in Mordor or something.

Speaker 3: 20:35

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 20:36

Well to have to hold the tension of the ditch because that ditch kept you safe.

Speaker 3: 20:45

What happened? Where'd you go?

Speaker 2: 20:47

It's hard to bless that ditch. It's so hard because of the literal and symbolic idea of being in a ditch, yeah, and it kept you safe. It feels very similar to blessing porn.

Speaker 1: 21:07

That's where you found it right.

Speaker 2: 21:09

It was close to it, but it was on the side of the road. The feelings were the same. I'm willing to debase myself to care for myself, but yet I don't know what to make. I don't know how to come out of this.

Speaker 3: 21:23

I don't know, in some ways to see you shame yourself for choosing a ditch. Yeah, why would that little boy not choose that ditch? Because this is a part of the story where I feel there's a lot of war yeah, it's hard.

Speaker 2: 21:41

It's really hard um on dell to to go there, because it's not a decision that I made in my mind with much option. It's like it was.

Speaker 3: 21:55

His little limbic system did.

Speaker 2: 21:57

Yeah, and I don't know how to bless that, because I want to hold a little measure of shame against myself. It's very emotional, it's it's very emotional, it's very embodied, something I struggle to let go of.

Speaker 3: 22:17

And some would have to wonder how is the shame serving you somehow? Why, what's the grip?

Speaker 2: 22:27

Well, it's my past. I mean, I feel like there's pieces of this story and pieces of my growing up and my family dynamic and my religious dynamic that are just so soaked in shame that, if I let it all go, where did I come from?

Speaker 4: 22:43

What do?

Speaker 2: 22:43

I have to anchor myself to.

Speaker 3: 22:46

A boy who was smart enough to hide in the ditch that's just so inaccessible for me.

Speaker 2: 22:53

I mean, it's like that is such a challenge to celebrate that boy that you did earlier.

Speaker 1: 23:00

Yeah, you compared him to frodo and sam, the hobbits running from the orcs on a mission. It sounds to me like at some level deep down, you know that that boy is a hero well drew.

Speaker 3: 23:19

Yeah, I know you said like who was about to at the end, yeah it was the hobbits yeah yeah, I know that's the right answer.

Speaker 2: 23:28

When it escaped my lips I was like why Mordor? I could have picked anywhere.

Speaker 4: 23:33

I could have picked walking across the.

Speaker 3: 23:35

Shire.

Speaker 2: 23:36

But now I picked freaking Mordor to come out of the ditch. I had this experience in the in recently is being able to comfort that younger version of myself and say what you guys are saying and just receive that. Yeah, You're a hero for going in that ditch. You're a hero for carrying yourself.

Speaker 3: 24:00

Well, it's interesting Like hero. It's like that word is not so much sitting in me like hero, but it felt wise.

Speaker 2: 24:12

That's even deeper?

Speaker 3: 24:16

I don't want you in a ditch and Chris going to the ditch. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 24:26

It was wise and it was also creative.

Speaker 3: 24:31

What do you think, chris, chris was happening?

Speaker 2: 24:34

I mean that offering those two words wisdom and creativity to my 11, 12, 13-year-old self just not something that I've done much of.

Speaker 3: 24:45

Again, it's protecting you more than anyone in this whole story. There's no protection in this story except for the ditch, and the next second is the dogs.

Speaker 2: 24:57

Yeah, and they scared the heck out of me. Man, I did not like dogs until I was an adult. We had some as pets and I'm fine with them now. But I had a traumatic experience at two where a dog jumped up on me and scared me to death, and so it was like the harassment was worse than my fear of the dogs, and so I would. I would push through. So, yeah, I would even argue that the ditch was the only safe place.

Speaker 3: 25:21

Yeah, and it's interesting the story, how you describe the sidewalk Like why would I walk in the ditch when there's a perfectly good sidewalk right next to it? When a sidewalk is the most unsafe place in the story, that's right To tell this story where that's not a perfectly good sidewalk.

Speaker 2: 25:43

You're right, it was not.

Speaker 3: 25:45

And in some ways like can you answer that question? Why would I choose the drainage ditch when there was a perfectly good sidebar? Like the little boy would be able to answer that question.

Speaker 2: 25:57

Well, I reflect back what you guys have given me. I was wise and creative to choose the ditch and I received that and I embody that as best I can in this moment. I want to continue to embody that because that does bring the blessing in the midst of the harm that I struggle to see.

Speaker 3: 26:18

Yeah, and I love you put like of course it doesn't look good to come out of a ditch, like there's a sense of holding that as well, like I don't want you to have to climb out of a ditch, sense of holding that as well, like I don't want you to have to climb out of a ditch. So in some ways we're not just merely talking about let's not really make a lemonade, yeah, but there's something of holding the tension of the ditch.

Speaker 2: 26:45

As I look back, I never remember being made fun of for crawling out of that ditch Wow.

Speaker 1: 26:52

What's it like to say that?

Speaker 2: 26:56

That, that was the grace that was offered to me in the moment. That was the path of safety, of self-care. And yet, while I had shame, the shame was in here.

Speaker 1: 27:13

The shame was not out there, chris. At the end you mentioned how, even now, you will linger in a hug or treasure moments when somebody gives you an empathetic word. I wonder how that relates to the story.

Speaker 2: 27:34

I wonder how that situation might have felt different if there was more of that. And that, frankly, Drew, brings tears to my eyes because I feel the loss of the hugs and the empathetic words in that season of my life. I missed them. I wanted them.

Speaker 3: 28:02

First of all, just bless your tears, Chris. Bless your tears, my friend. Thanks for letting us join you. And I think it was like it just kind of took me back to the beginning of the story, like oldest boy who somehow came to the place of he doesn't want to be baby, but that sense of I need to take care of himself and I didn't need to burden my mom, but like so that's. That would tell me just in some sense at least you were really attuned to your mother.

Speaker 2: 28:40

that felt true it does sadly so, because that's not a reciprocal statement. I mean, I've always seen her better than she's seen me.

Speaker 3: 28:52

Well, to see her in such a way that you didn't want to burden her. Yeah, to the point, to where I don't want to be needed.

Speaker 2: 29:02

But I was 11, wendell Uh-huh, and I needed it. I needed some bathing. Thank you, I needed some bathing. I needed some nurture, thank you. I needed some care and some kindness and some softness and some presence, because that's the stuff that porn provided for me. That's my arousal template. Template is someone who will see me and be vulnerable with me and be kind to me, but also bring me that arousal that I want to have out of life, cause this story feels so, gray, maybe someone who will take me away, maybe someone who will take me away.

Speaker 2: 29:50

I don't think so much take me away as just be with me in the day-to-day. Like none of my fantasies are fantastical.

Speaker 3: 29:58

They're all very grounded and real in in everyday life, but they're comforting, they're caring yeah, I have to imagine that they are a bit almost contradictory, if you will, they're probably closer to somebody walking you to school.

Speaker 2: 30:16

Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, oh yeah. I mean we can go down that road, another podcast, but that's. I mean there's. There's a lot of that every day just in the process of life Intimacy, connection, vulnerability, presence, stuff, yeah.

Speaker 3: 30:35

And just even hearing you now, because you can look at how you started this story and feel the tension in this little boy's body. I don't want to be babied, and I so want to be babied. Yes, yes.

Speaker 4: 30:53

Yes, and I'm feeling so alone, having to figure everything out, and I just wish that someone was here to teach me how to do it.

Speaker 2: 31:01

Yes.

Speaker 4: 31:02

Marcus.

Speaker 2: 31:04

And that's been the hardest thing for me to learn is that there's not anybody coming to do that. I've got to create that in my own spaces, in my own relationships and just letting go of that. Now, part of that, I think, is for me the grief of the fact that nobody did show up. I don't have the experiences to draw from in my childhood of being cared for and nurtured and and babied in that way, but I do. I do linger a little extra with hugs these days, appropriately. So you know, guy hugs, you can kind of cheat and get an extra two or three seconds out of that, right.

Speaker 3: 31:43

First you have found. Are they not your ditch?

Speaker 2: 31:47

They are a better version and a much more integrated version, not your ditch. They are a better version and a much more integrated version of that ditch. And I mean I was with six of them this morning and we were sitting and just sharing life together and went around the circle as I left and gave each man a hug.

Speaker 3: 32:06

There's a sense that that ditch covered you, and you know what. I'm not going to beauty up the ditch no you notice, I'm not beating up the ditch. I'm still using the vision the way that you use it in the story yeah, yep, because there's still some tension with the ditch, sure, and there's something of. I need a whole bunch of them and I'm hoping, as you talk, I'm hoping that little boy is becoming much, much more wise to you.

Speaker 2: 32:46

I hope as you, even through your own words. It was a brilliant move. I'm learning to love and honor him more.

Speaker 1: 32:49

I'm learning to love and honor him more. And that's it for part two of this series on story work for men outgrowing porn. If you would like to jump in to a story group, please go to husbandmaterialcom slash group or you can join our next cohort of Husband Material Academy. Right now in the month of April, we're doing a free challenge, the spring story challenge, where men are sharing stories like this every day in the Husband Material community. Next week you will hear part three of this series on how to write a story and witness an incredible example of a well-written story processed with incredible vulnerability and kindness, as Wendell Moss takes his turn to share. Always remember, my friend, you are God's beloved son and in you he is well pleased.